Slower growing varieties?

RosyPosy said:
That’s exactly it, this is what I’ve noticed whenever someone makes a statement that a variety is hard for them, there’s always a handful who say it’s not. Certainly, environmental factors have to play in.

Another one— HdA was one of my easiest to root, zero problems with it. For rooting though, I do think the source matters.
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I think we've had better luck with cuttings from inground trees (like Harvey and Big Bill), but I don't have data - I could probably extract it from our spreadsheets, but it's not a random sample either, so... just a guess.

We have also had some root easily (e.g. HdA, Zaffiro, etc.) that are reported by others to be hard to root, and I'd attribute that to cutting quality/freshness (and maybe some luck).

The worst seem to be the FMV riddled WS-sourced varieties like Ischia Black.

I know this is one of the those "controversial" topics, LOL... but I can respect that others have a different experience/opinions. Until someone does the work to produces some actual data - we are all basically guessing.
 
PapaFig said:
I think we've had better luck with cuttings from inground trees (like Harvey and Big Bill), but I don't have data - I could probably extract it from our spreadsheets, but it's not a random sample either, so... just a guess.

We have also had some root easily (e.g. HdA, Zaffiro, etc.) that are reported by others to be hard to root, and I'd attribute that to cutting quality/freshness (and maybe some luck).

The worst seem to be the FMV riddled WS-sourced varieties like Ischia Black.

I know this is one of the those "controversial" topics, LOL... but I can respect that others have a different experience/opinions. Until someone does the work to produces some actual data - we are all basically guessing.
Click to expand...
I feel like there could be a huge lesson in here with the information. Definitely think certain practices or ways of growing have a bearing, and if we could get it all together, we might learn some important factors. But it seems hard to get conclusive information, that’s also because nature is involved and some of it is invisible to us.

For the experiments I’m doing on my blog, I noticed cuttings from certain sources rooted right away and other sources did not, even with the same variety being involved across them. Of course I’m asking, what’s the difference? I even emailed the sellers to see if anything obvious stood out, but I didn’t get many responses back, haha. I think even at what state of dormancy the cutting was taken at probably was a factor, since there are chemical changes in dormant trees.

Or, for slow growing varieties, is there a particular nutrient profile that they need?

I’m sure to an extent, the information is out there, it’s just getting it together in an accurate way. Sometimes what people think is helping or not helping is not actually so, and everything is just guesses or opinions in many ways.

I don’t fault trying to put a list together though! It can help in certain ways.
 
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My cddb barely grew at all and I had it since June or July. And my hda grew but also not much compared to others. But the weird thing is I have a Brunswick/ magnolia that's
 
My cddb barely grew at all and I had it since June or July. And my hda grew but also not much compared to others. But the weird thing is I have a Brunswick/ magnolia that's
Not grown at all. Even though it looks incredibly healthy. But if you want another condition that might be a factor mike Kincaid had a video where he had stalled plants and put them in a bigger pot and it took off.
 
RosyPosy said:
I feel like there could be a huge lesson in here with the information. Definitely think certain practices or ways of growing have a bearing, and if we could get it all together, we might learn some important factors. But it seems hard to get conclusive information, that’s also because nature is involved and some of it is invisible to us.

For the experiments I’m doing on my blog, I noticed cuttings from certain sources rooted right away and other sources did not, even with the same variety being involved across them. Of course I’m asking, what’s the difference? I even emailed the sellers to see if anything obvious stood out, but I didn’t get many responses back, haha. I think even at what state of dormancy the cutting was taken at probably was a factor, since there are chemical changes in dormant trees.

Or, for slow growing varieties, is there a particular nutrient profile that they need?

I’m sure to an extent, the information is out there, it’s just getting it together in an accurate way. Sometimes what people think is helping or not helping is not actually so, and everything is just guesses or opinions in many ways.

I don’t fault trying to put a list together though! It can help in certain ways.
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I definitely agree. This is exactly why I’ll try to source a variety from different sources. Some sellers do seem to take it a little personally when I ask them a lot of questions. Maybe they think I am questioning their integrity or honesty. The majority have no problem telling me. Also there are too many variables in cutting sources between in-ground vs pots, nutrient and fert protocols, age of trees, how many days post dormancy they are taken, what temps and humidity the trees were in when cuttings were taken, etc. Then we get into the whole thing with sports of different varieties. List of variables goes on and on.
 
Schoenie said:
Also... Cuttings taken from a branch that goes straight up, tend to grow differently than those taken from the same tree from a branch that grows more horizontal...

BTW: I like your use of the word "marcot" (from the French word "marcottage") @GoodFriendMike Mike!
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While this may be true, to actually prove it you would have to:

1. Take your own cuttings and mark them horizontal/vertical as you cut them.
2. Decide what is “horizontal”? Does a 45 deg angle mean vertical or horizontal? What about a cutting that has curve upwards?
3. Root and grow out 100 cuttings of horizontal and 100 vertical cuttings from the same exact tree before you can make that determination.
 
IAK said:
I definitely agree. This is exactly why I’ll try to source a variety from different sources. Some sellers do seem to take it a little personally when I ask them a lot of questions. Maybe they think I am questioning their integrity or honesty. The majority have no problem telling me. Also there are too many variables in cutting sources between in-ground vs pots, nutrient and fert protocols, age of trees, how many days post dormancy they are taken, what temps and humidity the trees were in when cuttings were taken, etc. Then we get into the whole thing with sports of different varieties. List of variables goes on and on.
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Yeah, some sellers do seem to take it in a challenging way. I tried to word it as nicely as possible and let them know why I was asking, but I think it still may have come across a certain way. Some buyers just create trouble, so I understand the concern.

One thing that was interesting to me is that I got a lot of cuttings from one source starting mid-November through January. Most of the ones I received in November rooted in a little over 2 weeks, all of the others received later have taken 4-8 weeks or longer. Granted, these are all different varieties, but it happened with all of them. That difference with dormancy seems huge. It literally was just a difference of a couple of weeks from when cuttings were taken between immediate rooting and delay.

That is kind of a known factor already, but still helps to put it in perspective between sources and why there can be simple reasons for differences.
 
PapaFig said:
If it's the one ProFig w/Agristarts, I think it turned out to be Tena - caused a big mess for Brian. Or has someone else done BM TC?

Yeah, it's hard to say the cause - but my original BM (from Harvey, 2019) was a very slow grower. It did better on grafted RS for me.

I've heard others mention it grows slowly for them also. Of course there are many factors, like cutting quality, stage, maturity of the mother tree, FMV, variety, etc.
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The original one did turn out to be Tena. But he has since got the issue resolved and has been sending out real BM TC’s to those that bought the Tena ones.
 
PapaFig said:
De La Roca, Ischia Black, Black Madeira, CDDB, Borada Barraquer, Galicia negra... few others. Lots of overlap with the hard to root varieties - usually the same ones.
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I got a De la Roca air layer from HighlandFigs 3 years ago and it definitely was struggling when I up potted to 7 gal. In July of 2025, it grew 4’. Up potted again to 10 gal and it shot up 3’ more feet. I got an air layer off it in Sept. Now that I think about it, most of my younger trees got 2 months of summer rain.
 
GoodFriendMike said:
The original one did turn out to be Tena. But he has since got the issue resolved and has been sending out real BM TC’s to those that bought the Tena ones.
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I did recently receive the real BM tissue culture from Profig. I don’t remember if his original fb listing mentioned anything about the “fake” BM as being a TC. But back then, I was a less informed grower and wanted the best tasting variety ever.
 
PapaFig said:
I think we've had better luck with cuttings from inground trees (like Harvey and Big Bill), but I don't have data - I could probably extract it from our spreadsheets, but it's not a random sample either, so... just a guess.

We have also had some root easily (e.g. HdA, Zaffiro, etc.) that are reported by others to be hard to root, and I'd attribute that to cutting quality/freshness (and maybe some luck).

The worst seem to be the FMV riddled WS-sourced varieties like Ischia Black.

I know this is one of the those "controversial" topics, LOL... but I can respect that others have a different experience/opinions. Until someone does the work to produces some actual data - we are all basically guessing.
Click to expand...
sorry no need to answer if its an issue, but what is "WS" here. my only guess is its something to do with being from the USDA originally
 
snarfing said:
Fingers crossed mine look ok. But slow yes
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Let me make it more clear: My HdA cutting from Harvey last year developed roots quickly and grew beautifully at first. However, since it grew much slower than the other cuttings, it seems very sensitivity to over watering. It died later due to over watering, while none of my other cuttings had the same problem. I then ordered a young tree form Big Bill. It grew maybe 8" the whole season!
 
GoodFriendMike said:
Before figs I was into tropical fruit. Not the best hobby for my zone. Figs on the other hand grow well here.
Reading books on tropical fruit from around the world. It was very rare to see the term "Air Layer"
It was always called a "Marcot". That word stuck with me since that time. Once you learn the name of something. It is hard to change it. :)
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Marcos - my fig adventure just became classy! Love it!
 
mech_pa said:
Let me make it more clear: My HdA cutting from Harvey last year developed roots quickly and grew beautifully at first. However, since it grew much slower than the other cuttings, it seems very sensitivity to over watering. It died later due to over watering, while none of my other cuttings had the same problem. I then ordered a young tree form Big Bill. It grew maybe 8" the whole season!
Click to expand...
my hda from big bill started very slow then i started it on a liquid fertilizer regiment and very often, and it exploded. This seems to be a heavy eater.
 
GoodFriendMike said:
Before figs I was into tropical fruit. Not the best hobby for my zone. Figs on the other hand grow well here.
Reading books on tropical fruit from around the world. It was very rare to see the term "Air Layer"
It was always called a "Marcot". That word stuck with me since that time. Once you learn the name of something. It is hard to change it. :)
Click to expand...
I think it's a perfect, professional word to use!
 
GoodFriendMike said:
Before figs I was into tropical fruit. Not the best hobby for my zone. Figs on the other hand grow well here.
Reading books on tropical fruit from around the world. It was very rare to see the term "Air Layer"
It was always called a "Marcot". That word stuck with me since that time. Once you learn the name of something. It is hard to change it. :)
Click to expand...
He’s Louisianan, it’s the French influence!
 
RosyPosy said:
That’s exactly it, this is what I’ve noticed whenever someone makes a statement that a variety is hard for them, there’s always a handful who say it’s not. Certainly, environmental factors have to play in.

Another one— HdA was one of my easiest to root, zero problems with it. For rooting though, I do think the source matters.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you: Good quality, healthy cuttings make all the difference!

I was not kidding when in the past I mentioned that in my hands, and using my rooting protocol, all cutting
I've received from Phil @FigGazer have consistently outperformed any cuttings from any other source. The same
goes for cuttings from my local SF Bay Area friends Mark and Dan.
 
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