My Panachee is super productive but not so big yet, so it might be because it doesn’t have enough leaves to support all the figs. I do have enough season for it, but really late for sure. I’m hoping that it get earlier as it’s more mature
superdave336
Well-known member
The 3 Smiths I had this year were amazing. One that ripened a little more on tree was my family’s favorite. I’d love to try a Tia Penya too if similar to Smith. I think Smith is probably better suited for my environment though.I've never had a bland Smith... I'm totally jonesing to try Tia Penya... Only one person my side of the border I know who's growing it
BucksCountyFigs
Well-known member
This newbie thanks you for introducing Growing Degree Days (GDD) and the tip on its splittyness.
For my fellow newbies, here is an additional description: https://extension.psu.edu/understanding-growing-degree-days
Is there a source that lists the GDDs of a lot of figs? Or should I just google them individually?
Jigfig
Well-known member
I think there may be a list on another forum that may or may not exist lol just google it and throw the name of the forum in the search line
GDDs is a very local measurement. You cannot use GDDs measured from elsewhere to determine in an absolute term if a variety will ripen in your area. The only useful thing for GDDs is to use it to rank which varieties are later with respect to each other and even then that’s not very reliable either, since tree maturity and growing environments introduce too much volatility to that measurement.
It’s useful if you have somebody that’s done the data collection in your specific area with all the controls on maturity and the growing conditions.
grasshopper
Well-known member
I know panache is reported late. Mine was very productive as well, double figs on every node. I was pleased with the tree.
grasshopper
Well-known member
That is quite opposite of what I understood how GDD is calculated and used. It is location independent and only rely on the threshold temperature which is plant dependent.
It is a much better measure than using days to ripen because each season and each location has different weather.
There are GDD databases on fig varieties, not the best but still usable across all regions.
The calculation is not location dependent but the number is highly location dependent. For example in coastal Bay Area we would get 2000 GDDs or a bit more when Black Madeira type figs are ripe. While Black Madeira might be ripening somewhere when it gets to 3000. That doesn’t mean that Black Madeira will not ripen in lower GDDs area.
Another example is say compare Morgan hill and San Francisco. Both will ripen Panachee at the end of the season but Morgan hill would accumulate way over 3000 GDDs when Panachee is ripe, while SF even in the warmest spot might barely accumulate 2500 GDDs
My point is GDDs can be useful but only when modified with location specific parameters
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Figgin' A
Well-known member
Another way to understand GDD is to think of it as water. A tree needs water to live, grow, and bear fruit. There is only so much a tree can drink in a day/week/month. If you supply it with too much water, the tree will drink just enough to function (let's forget the issues that may come from overwatering), and the rest will be wasted. Excess water doesn't equal faster growth or fruiting. Similarly, excess GDD doesn't make figs grow or ripen appreciably faster... in fact, too much GDD can mean excess heat, which can have the opposite effect.
grasshopper
Well-known member
I see what you mean by the GDD requirements can be location specific.
I also agree with @Figgin' A 's comments about the excess GDD not necessarily contributing to the growth/ripening.
GDD is a crude measure over some threshold temperature (50F being commonly used for figs but I think 60F is probably better based on experiences).
I look at the GDDs for a variety as a range instead of a single number. E.g. black Madeira types are in the 2200-3200 range. That is a 1000 point spread between the two ends. There are ways to explain the spread but probably not enough data to support one over another.
To me, 2200 is probably the minimal to get a BM to ripen, probably not enough for the whole crop but at least you can ripen one for taste. If I live in an area with low GDD, and 2200 is difficult to reach in a typical year, then I definitely need a headstart to make up the difference.
That might be a too simplistic way to look at things but given the number of variables that can change the ripening schedule, one has to start somewhere.
superdave336
Well-known member
Ok I’ve been trying to feed this but I still haven’t figured out what a GDD is. Sorry I’m a newbie to this
GoodFriendMike
Moderator
growing degree day
grasshopper
Well-known member
The first person proposed using GDD on figs was probably Ramv from the Seattle area. Seattle has a mild winter but relatively cool summer, a bit similar to part of the SF bay area. His GDD may therefore be used by growers with similar climate without much adjustment. I don't remember his BM GDD off my head and he used indoor grow tent to head start many of the late varieties.
I think the 2200 GDD for BM came from Mario's #50. I also did a quick check on Moonlight's BM based on Joe's results. I think it was around 2300 GDD. If you live in an area with similar weather to Joe or Mario, then you can use the GDD to find out when you should expect fruit ripening (just the first one). If you live in warmer area, your GDD number is likely to be higher. (which is oat and Figgin A's point about GDD being location dependent)
For growers with very different weather conditions, growing days can be used as approximation. e.g. make an assumption that the trees are put outside after the last frost day with no headstart. And growing days can be translated into GDD across regions after making assumption like higher temperature don't negatively impact the ripening time.
We are basically counting the time we put the plants outside to the time we get the first fruit ripen versus pea size to fruit ripen, which I feel the former is easier to record and a bit more objective.
There are other ways to adjust the GDD differences though.
I think the 2200 GDD for BM came from Mario's #50. I also did a quick check on Moonlight's BM based on Joe's results. I think it was around 2300 GDD. If you live in an area with similar weather to Joe or Mario, then you can use the GDD to find out when you should expect fruit ripening (just the first one). If you live in warmer area, your GDD number is likely to be higher. (which is oat and Figgin A's point about GDD being location dependent)
For growers with very different weather conditions, growing days can be used as approximation. e.g. make an assumption that the trees are put outside after the last frost day with no headstart. And growing days can be translated into GDD across regions after making assumption like higher temperature don't negatively impact the ripening time.
We are basically counting the time we put the plants outside to the time we get the first fruit ripen versus pea size to fruit ripen, which I feel the former is easier to record and a bit more objective.
There are other ways to adjust the GDD differences though.