Roeding #3 - DFIC 133

I can certainly understand that, nature is unpredictable, but I could never believe that this is 'normal', and it is certainly not in any of the 34 or so different trees I have seen here, maybe where you are things are totally different? It seems we must have a huge variation in what you and I see, here, almost every tree produces short styled female flowers in abundance, with little to no long style flowers as the picture below shows. This Caprifig is 60mm in dia, 55mm long from eye to stem. Just to be clear how many cultivars have you  seen with a low percentage of short styled female flowers there?
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8th-Sept-2024-B-L-60x50fb.jpg


A good Caprifig tree, with large crops that overlap well, have large Profichi with plenty of wasps and pollen has to be a big plus. As I said previously, in many European countries, larger Caprifigs, having more Blastophaga Psenes, are always preferred if they are purchasing them.
 
@"Rob"#54 
I. Condit wrote about many caprifigs, most of which he never directly observed. Instead he paraphrased prior authors, Eisen and Swingle in particular.

You, Mike, and I have each directly observed a few dozen caprifigs -- many of which are selections.

Two researchers in Israel and Japan have each observed thousands. I'm sticking with their conclusions.
 
Well, I am disappointed in that, I would have thought local conditions would mean more to you, as they do to me, but hey, we are all entitled to our opinion. I know from what I have seen, that I can very happily work with these trees, and really that is my priority. I feel sorry for those who don't have what I have been lucky enough to find here, these are all outstanding, but some in different ways. One in particular, is basically full of male flowers covered with pollen, and just a small number of Blastophaga Psenes, so for collecting pollen for use later in the season, they are fantastic, the rest of them are good for normal pollination. Mike has said for sometime that our Caprifigs are different, and I can see now that it is a real bonus, they are very good. It's a pity I cannot easily send cuttings to the US, you may be surprised.
 
@"Rob"#54 
I have a USDA import license and quarantine area. I would of course have to pay you for the phytosanitary inspection on your end.

From the papers I've read from Australian researchers, I gather some of the caprifigs in circulation there are from Iran.
 
In our state, South Australia, we had Roedings 1,2,3 and 4, Angelique(Angeline?), Figue Jaune....France, Pingo De Mel(Croisic), Capri#3?, Rouge... from France, Bulls#1?, Caprifolia? but none that I know of from Iran, but different states could have had others. We also had a very large one that came by mistake, I believe, from Roeding, the one that was mentioned in his book according to a newspaper article I transcribed recently. From another old article, I know that we had at least 13 different types in 1913 in an experimental Government orchard, and in the last 111 years, I am sure many new ones have been brought here, or just grown from seed, hence what we have now. I have not identified any of the trees that I have found, but mostly they look like seedlings.
 
I must say. I [font='Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]directly observed many more than a few dozen. I believe I may have the largest collection of them in the U.S. I agree with Rob the larger the figs the more wasp. Of course it is variety specific. But so are studies. I no longer read studies as I find to many errors in them. Now I study Capri in person. Some of my Capri are in 45 gal pots. They need to be inground or in very large pots to truly study them. With small pots you are just guessing what it may or may not do. Meaning you are wasting your time. You mentioned Israel. What Caprifig's did they study? If it was Capri from Israel. There Capri are different than ours. I have one from that area. When studying Capri. It is best to get them from around the world if you can. Like China is trying to do right now. For you, me, And Rob. We can read all we want. But what we will find will be different than what is written. That is why I am now growing figs from seeds from around the world. That is the only legal way for me to study the Capri from those areas. And to truly understand them. Studying figs from one area or just a couple areas gives us nothing. It only tells us about the figs in that area. Look at California. Just in that one state the figs and Caprifig's can be very different from one area to the next. I am sure you have seen this. I know you like me and Rob. Have strong opinions about certain thing's. But this forum is not about trying to prove who knows more. Or who is right and who is wrong. It is about helping others. :)[/font]
 
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Just so you see what I see here, this is a small Caprifig on the right, a large one on the left, and since I see VERY few to zero long styled female flowers in any Caprifigs here, the difference in wasp numbers is huge, every brown dot on the left Caprifig is an egg, that will become a wasp. Of course on the right, galls have formed and male and female wasps are only a few weeks from maturity.
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Small-and-large-Caprifigs.jpg
 
@"GoodFriendMike"#9 

"I directly observed many more than a few dozen"
few ≠ couple

"When studying Capri. It is best to get them from around the world if you can."
I agree. That's what M. Flaishman in Israel and H. Ikegami in Japan have done, spending two decades building upon the already large international collections they inherited at their institutions.

You and I have a common interest in caprifigs. You like to study them in ground or in large pots as do I. Additionally, I have been sequencing them. You and I both want to obtain specimens world wide. As I mentioned to Rob, have the USDA licenses to do it. Where do you want to start?
 
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For those reading all of this. The photo's Rob posted are swapped on my screen. And may be on yours. But it is very clear what figs he is talking about.
 
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Richard, You should know by now. My typing is not anywhere near perfect. So really no need comment on it. We could make a whole thread correcting members english skills or typing skills. But that would not help anything. I do agree. We both have a interest in Capri. You have commented before about me using a Capitol C when I mention Capri. That is because they are what I love. They are what I collect and grow. I do it for the love of research. I care not about who is right or wrong. I care not about the money. I have always been broke. I really think you missunderstand me. As far as importing. I would love to. I want to get my hands on the Iron Capri's and many other's. But I am not going to risk it. Your question of where to start. Lets start by forgetting the O.F. past. And lets move forward. I do believe we all can do more for the community together than arguing over whether a fig was classified right or wrong. The one from Israel I have. I named for the area it came from. Sakhnin. I really hope we can move forward. I do not like arguing. And I am done doing so.
 
@"GoodFriendMike"#9 
I wasn't correcting your spelling. I was pointing out that a few dozen is several more than a couple dozen. I did not intend to imply you'd only seen 24.

"I want to get my hands on the Iron Capri's and many other's. But I am not going to risk it."
If they are in a foreign repository, I can bring scionwood here legally. See my post in General Discussion.
 
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