List of Difficult to Root Varieties + Please Add More

I stuck 3 smith cuttings in some garbage soil and they all 3 took. They’re all doing great right now. I’m 100% no where near anyone’s level of experience with rooting cuttings and they all made the magic happen.

Perhaps I just got lucky though?
 
PapaFig said:
  • Coll de Dama Mutante
  • Black Madeira
  • Sangue Dolce
  • De la Senyora (Hivernenca)
  • Barbillone
  • Nuestra Senora del Carmen
  • Preto
  • Moscatel Preto
  • I-258
  • Martinenca Rimada
  • Genovese Nero AF
  • Cavaliere
  • Smith
  • Zidi
  • Abebereira (Bebera Preta, Bebeira Preta, Figaholics Dark)
  • Col de Dame Noir
  • Malta Black
  • Violette de Bordeaux
  • Panache (Tiger Fig)
  • Nero 600M
  • Grise de St. Jean
  • Noire de Caromb
  • Saint Martin (St. Martin, not San Martino)
  • Sant Agostino
  • Galicia Negra
  • Ponte Tresa
  • NdE (Noire de l’Estaque)
  • Capoll Curt Negra
  • Zaffiro
  • Deanna
  • LSU Purple
  • Bourjasotte Grise
  • Negreta
  • Hative d’Argenteuil
  • RdB (Ronde de Bordeaux)
  • Longue d’Aout
  • Verdino del Nord
  • Fico Moro
  • Atreano
  • Goutte d’Or
  • Bebera Branca (Bebera Blanca, Bebeira Branca)
  • Saint Anthony (St. Anthony, not St. Anthony PC)
  • Luv
  • Sobon Blue Green
  • BFF (Bass’ Favorite Fig)
  • *Brooklyn White
*Reported to root readily by some.
**This is a compilation based on my own experience and reports of other experienced propagators. I have rooted many of these varieties on the first try and also had many fail repeatedly. Individual results will vary.
Click to expand...

Is there really such a thing as a variety that is “hard to root?”

There are so many random posts along these lines, which imply that something about the variety itself makes it less prone to rooting successfully.

But with so many variables that go into successful rooting, ranging from the quality of the cuttings themselves to the skill/technique of the grower, it seems there are too much confounding variables to assert that a variety is inherently “easy” or more “difficult” to root.

All these variables (and many more) pertain to the quality of the cutting, only some of which the buyer is even aware of or has control over:
Cutting length, cutting diameter, number of nodes, degree of lignification, freshness, prior exposure to damaging winter conditions, cold storage time prior to rooting, prior treatment by seller with antifungal or anti-mite treatment, unrefrigerated shipping time (with exposure to heat or cold), measures taken to prevent desiccation in storage, degree of FMV infection of the mother tree, etc.
Many of these the buyer doesn’t even know about upon receipt, just taking a leap of faith in the quality of cuttings received.

Of course there are an equal number of variables that pertain to rooting technique which can wildly affect outcomes. I won’t even go into how many different rooting methods there are and the various factors that can ruin a newbie’s chances of success.

As an anecdotal example, my rooting success is above 90 percent for the past three years on a large number of cuttings. This year, however, a couple cuttings I obtained of my most anticipated variety failed. I was puzzled that I went 0/2 for this one variety. Could it be that it was uniquely challenging to root?
Unwilling to give up on the variety, I purchased two more cuttings of the same variety from another seller and they both easily rooted and grew vigorously.

If I had stopped after the first two failures from the initial seller, I would have concluded this variety is hard to root. But in fact it had more to do with cuttings themselves probably. Maybe the cuttings weren’t stored well, or had been stored too long, or maybe the post office left them out in the cold too long in transit. Who knows.

But I suspect that posts along the lines of some variety being hard to root have more to do with seller or end user factors than with the variety itself.

Can we stop blaming the variety and attribute it to cuttings and/or growers instead?

Food for thought.
 
I meant to reply yesterday I had an easy time with thr first three and high rate. With Madeira my cuttings were fresh and almost all rooted the last one still might

There is another on the list I saw was difficult and was easy for me also... i agree that some varieties seem to be more concentrated with the right hormones when picked at one time vs another... and some start at the lower end of the temp range easily. Some others seem to wait until it's warmer so it could be that a few inches further from a window or aligned with an air vent that blows warm air could make the difference with some and make others slower or hinder them but most seem to have a cozy range if the cuttings are healthy

I had a lousy rate with a few Cdd varieties and then I got fresher ones from someone and got easy rooters but I still wonder about Blanc and Gegantina.. Pellegrino ive struck out on twice.. the ones that make thin roots can't take a cold draft early when they just started rooting at least in water i dont think...but I only lost the closest to windows on freezing nights ...alot of variables

Then there are those that root easy but are trickier to keep alive. Izbat i would say is pickier.. and the grown plant doesn't ripen well in heat also but still good soongy fruits.. maybe wants a cooler life .. Firehouse was odd too.. easy rooter but I think it wanted a tropical life and didn't want to hang out in the water long
 
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Is it varieties that are hard to root or slow to root? The longer a cutting sits before its roots the more likely the propagator is to make a mistake that kills the cutting.
It’s interesting RDB comes up as a hard to root variety, out RDB roots so easily, you don’t even have to try.

I’m still of the opinion some cuttings due to some factor probably unforeseen damage are destined to fail.
 
Lafiggy said:
Is there really such a thing as a variety that is “hard to root?”

There are so many random posts along these lines, which imply that something about the variety itself makes it less prone to rooting successfully.

But with so many variables that go into successful rooting, ranging from the quality of the cuttings themselves to the skill/technique of the grower, it seems there are too much confounding variables to assert that a variety is inherently “easy” or more “difficult” to root.

All these variables (and many more) pertain to the quality of the cutting, only some of which the buyer is even aware of or has control over:
Cutting length, cutting diameter, number of nodes, degree of lignification, freshness, prior exposure to damaging winter conditions, cold storage time prior to rooting, prior treatment by seller with antifungal or anti-mite treatment, unrefrigerated shipping time (with exposure to heat or cold), measures taken to prevent desiccation in storage, degree of FMV infection of the mother tree, etc.
Many of these the buyer doesn’t even know about upon receipt, just taking a leap of faith in the quality of cuttings received.

Of course there are an equal number of variables that pertain to rooting technique which can wildly affect outcomes. I won’t even go into how many different rooting methods there are and the various factors that can ruin a newbie’s chances of success.

As an anecdotal example, my rooting success is above 90 percent for the past three years on a large number of cuttings. This year, however, a couple cuttings I obtained of my most anticipated variety failed. I was puzzled that I went 0/2 for this one variety. Could it be that it was uniquely challenging to root?
Unwilling to give up on the variety, I purchased two more cuttings of the same variety from another seller and they both easily rooted and grew vigorously.

If I had stopped after the first two failures from the initial seller, I would have concluded this variety is hard to root. But in fact it had more to do with cuttings themselves probably. Maybe the cuttings weren’t stored well, or had been stored too long, or maybe the post office left them out in the cold too long in transit. Who knows.

But I suspect that posts along the lines of some variety being hard to root have more to do with seller or end user factors than with the variety itself.

Can we stop blaming the variety and attribute it to cuttings and/or growers instead?

Food for thought.
Click to expand...

"Can we stop blaming the variety and attribute it to cuttings and/or growers instead?"

No.

But we can agree to disagree.

Some varieties are actually more difficult to root.

You make some very good points in your post, but it is still anecdotal. I generally order over a hundred cuttings from Harvey in any given year and use the same methodology to root them (I also order from other vendors every year). This reduces most of the confounding variables you mentioned. I have done strict A-B method testing (with over 100 cuttings) with over 90% success using certain methods. But with a background in graduate-level statistics, I know this is still anecdotal (on this particular question), nowhere near even a good t-score.

So until we have better data sets, I don't think anyone can give a definitive answer. As you pointed out, there are just too many confounding variables. I believe (but can't prove) some varieties are harder to root. Others disagree. Anecdotal evidence is better than none. I hope we will one day have the data sets (with repeatability) to establish a definitive answer one way or another. Until then, it's a topic that (I believe) deserves discussion. For now, I value everyone's opinion who is willing to weigh in, even those who disagree.

Kind Regards,
PapaFig
 
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I wonder if that is the problem. We root them all the same.
It seems some like more water some like less.
If we keep doing the same thing over and over the results will almost always be the same.
We always think it is a fig and that is true. But that seedling grew in a certain enviroment.
Knowing the area it came from might help figure out it's needs. Rooting and growing.
Just a thought. :)
 
Here is a link to a thread where I tested DE vs coco coir with 64 sets of matched cuttings. For the coco coir, 62/64 successfully rooted during the experiment. And I believe ultimately 59/64 rooted in DE, although they took longer on average. This was in a basement and I believe the stable temperatures helped with the percentages. All cuttings were from Harvey C.

Most of the parameters (water, pH, light, inoculants, hormones, etc.) are given in the thread.


Maybe I should set up some kind of experiment like this one for some of the "hard to root" vs "easy to root" varieties for next year. I could dig out my Design and Analysis textbook and go over blocking, etc..

Regarding cutting quality, I would want to source cuttings from in ground trees freshly cut, well lignified, fully dormant. I guess it would be best to start with as close to optimum conditions as possible. With blocking we might be able to cover 2-3 treatments (variables) with a reasonably robust degree of power (CIs).

Would anyone be interested (in results or even participation) in such an experiment?
 
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I find cuttings that come from area's where the trees do not go fully dormant root faster and easier.
As I have said in the past. They are still wanting to grow.
It seems cuttings that received that first light frost are not as good.
Not sure what other see as many do not post about it.
So this thread is turning out to be a very good one.
As far as inground versus potted. I can give you a cutting from both and you will root both just fine.
Care of trees and care of cuttings sent plays a big part.
I am very interested in the results. :)
 
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