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[TorontoJoe]

Research shows that in some cases, they only ripen by a matter of days earlier. You may get a week or two max, but that is it. Anyone who says they ripen sooner than that is not being truthful or is misunderstanding something else going on, such as spoiling.

California has had caprified figs for over a hundred years and other places around the world have had caprified figs for thousands of years. If they ripened a month or more sooner, we would know. Commercial growers would be using that knowledge to bring figs to the market sooner.

I’m only commenting on that because someone, or a few, has been saying otherwise and it is extremely misleading.

For me, i've had times where even a few days meant the difference of a hundred figs. Even if that's all the benefit.... I'll take it.

For me, if I have a chance of buying myself one week... it means a lot of figs that I wouldn't otherwise have.

 

[RosyPosy]

For me, i've had times where even a few days meant the difference of a hundred figs. Even if that's all the benefit.... I'll take it.

For me, if I have a chance of buying myself one week... it means a lot of figs that I wouldn't otherwise have.

I’m not saying it isn’t worthwhile, just that accuracy of the situation is important. Some would take the time & space of growing a caprifig & hand pollinating for several weeks difference, but not for a few days. Don’t want people thinking they’re getting something they won’t have, (though that is rampant in the fig world at times.) I feel bad for people when it doesn’t work out like they were led to believe.

 

[RosyPosy]

In my area there is no wasp. I brought them in before as you know. But do not have them now. So can say for sure pollen does ripen figs a week or two earlier.

And based on my experience, I can say for sure it doesn’t. Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of my figs are wasp pollinated, so I have direct side by side comparison. It isn’t the pollen “ripening” the figs earlier… at least, not all pollen.

People should consider that the act of putting sugar and water (which is probably not sterile) into a place where water is not meant to be may be doing some things too. Also, the protective barrier is compromised when the needle goes in opening up the inside to more air exposure. All of these could have an impact on gases, microbes, and whatever else is going on in the fig. Maybe that is hastening “ripening”, but it isn’t quite the same as being normally ripened. It’s like unripe fruits picked early and then exposed to ethylene gas. Is it technically ripe that way?

Please understand, I’m not against it. I have a hard time ripening late varieties here and so would love for it to be a “fix” so that I could enjoy them. But I am trying to be realistic with people so that for those to whom it matters, they aren’t wasting their time or buying varieties they otherwise wouldn’t. People are being told they’ll have greater figs much earlier and that simply is not the case. They will have some spoiled figs and some really good figs at about the same time as always, maybe a few days earlier.

Enjoy your night Mike

 

[GoodFriendMike]

And based on my experience, I can say for sure it doesn’t. Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of my figs are wasp pollinated, so I have direct side by side comparison. It isn’t the pollen “ripening” the figs earlier… at least, not all pollen.

People should consider that the act of putting sugar and water (which is probably not sterile) into a place where water is not meant to be may be doing some things too. Also, the protective barrier is compromised when the needle goes in opening up the inside to more air exposure. All of these could have an impact on gases, microbes, and whatever else is going on in the fig. Maybe that is hastening “ripening”, but it isn’t quite the same as being normally ripened. It’s like unripe fruits picked early and then exposed to ethylene gas. Is it technically ripe that way?

Please understand, I’m not against it. I have a hard time ripening late varieties here and so would love for it to be a “fix” so that I could enjoy them. But I am trying to be realistic with people so that for those to whom it matters, they aren’t wasting their time or buying varieties they otherwise wouldn’t. People are being told they’ll have greater figs much earlier and that simply is not the case. They will have some spoiled figs and some really good figs at about the same time as always, maybe a few days earlier.

Enjoy your night Mike

I do find it interesting your not seeing the same results as many others. Whether I use water and pollen in a syringe (no sugar) Wasp or I do the old needle and thread method. I still get better tasting figs that ripen earlier.
A few studies have shown that the pollen from different Capri will have different effects. I have not tried to compare the ones in my collection as I feel the study would be flawed.
I don't have the means to count/measure pollen to make sure each fig receives the exact same amount. That is another factor. How much pollen is being injected into the fig?
Time for more coffee. Good subject to think about first thing in the morning.

 

[TorontoJoe]

I’m not saying it isn’t worthwhile, just that accuracy of the situation is important. Some would take the time & space of growing a caprifig & hand pollinating for several weeks difference, but not for a few days. Don’t want people thinking they’re getting something they won’t have, (though that is rampant in the fig world at times.) I feel bad for people when it doesn’t work out like they were led to believe.

Totally… if anyone says this is the secret trick that will double your harvest, then it’s just like all those stupid AI generated YouTube videos… That’s absurd.

I figure it’s worth a try to see what happens. I go in to this sort of thing with the idea that it’s an experiment. If I see some success, great. If I don’t, then I learned something. Either way I’ve gained.

 

[ETXfigs]

It’s not normal. Wild pollinated figs take the same amount of time as non-pollinated figs for the most part.

Other people hand pollinating have had issues with spoiling or with fungus/bacteria. It can make the fig seem ripe when it isn’t. A bad taste is a sure indication of that. It could be something about the process or it could be something with the pollen.

I agree because some of them are very small and look spoiled and not a normal ripe look. The one Dr Gowaty was very good, but today I was picking ripe main crop Celeste and I noticed there are more Dr Gowaty almost ripe. Almost, like I'm going to pick them tomorrow. So I guess Dr Gowaty is just an early variety and that one good one would have ripened even if it wasn't caprified.

 

[RosyPosy]

I do find it interesting your not seeing the same results as many others. Whether I use water and pollen in a syringe (no sugar) Wasp or I do the old needle and thread method. I still get better tasting figs that ripen earlier.
A few studies have shown that the pollen from different Capri will have different effects. I have not tried to compare the ones in my collection as I feel the study would be flawed.
I don't have the means to count/measure pollen to make sure each fig receives the exact same amount. That is another factor. How much pollen is being injected into the fig?
Time for more coffee. Good subject to think about first thing in the morning.

Well… I am seeing the same results as others in California or other wasp areas. And I think that is the point. There is no magical earlier ripening going on in wasp areas, it is basically the same whether they are pollinated or not. I have had late season figs that were wasp pollinated, they did not ripen any earlier and I did not get to really try them because the majority were still not ripe by the end of October. The ones that did ripen still had poor flavor from ripening in cooler weather, like can happen with some varieties.

All of the waspy areas would be getting figs a month sooner if pollination made the difference some are claiming. And we just don’t. Weather and headstarts make the biggest difference for earlier ripening.

That would be a BIG thing California growers were holding out on telling people if we were getting figs weeks earlier all of this time, while the rest of the USA/Canada was having to wait weeks longer. All of these years and decades on fig forums and FB groups… and nobody said anything?? All of the research from Condit and others… and they didn’t see the pollinated figs were ripening so much earlier than non-pollinated figs?

Yes, I mentioned those papers of pollination from different caprifigs and any difference noted was by a few days, not weeks. So academic research is not getting those results either.

The pollen has to be weighed to measure it, if someone wanted to do that. They could see which pollen weight had the most success. It would probably need to be a scale with .1 gram precision just to be able to go really small if wanted or to pollinate a single fig if desired.

I’m sure some of the papers that reference hand pollinating say what pollen weight they used in the methods part of a paper and that could be a good starting point.

Randomly… I just did a quick search to see if pollen weight was listed, and in the process found a paper discussing how much pollen is actually viable in a caprifig (75.60 to 86.73%), and it mentioned that the amount of sucrose had a bearing on if the pollen was able to germinate. Pollen did not germinate at all if the medium did not have sucrose. Up to 20% sucrose increased germination, but at 25-30% sucrose, germination decreased. Of course, this is in a medium used to test germination and not in an actual fig. But I think it shows that the amount of sugar someone adds to their pollen concoction could potentially affect results as well.

There are multiple factors to consider for what might be going on and no one has really delved into all of the fine points of hand pollination for figs. That’s why I think accuracy is important amongst us — we can fine tune everything and get some real data that is helpful if we work together. But throwing in info to make people think a certain thing, while leaving out other factors involved that affected results isn’t going to help us get there. We’ll stay behind and not get anywhere if we are not accurate.

 

[GoodFriendMike]

Well… I am seeing the same results as others in California or other wasp areas. And I think that is the point. There is no magical earlier ripening going on in wasp areas, it is basically the same whether they are pollinated or not. I have had late season figs that were wasp pollinated, they did not ripen any earlier and I did not get to really try them because the majority were still not ripe by the end of October. The ones that did ripen still had poor flavor from ripening in cooler weather, like can happen with some varieties.

All of the waspy areas would be getting figs a month sooner if pollination made the difference some are claiming. And we just don’t. Weather and headstarts make the biggest difference for earlier ripening.

That would be a BIG thing California growers were holding out on telling people if we were getting figs weeks earlier all of this time, while the rest of the USA/Canada was having to wait weeks longer. All of these years and decades on fig forums and FB groups… and nobody said anything?? All of the research from Condit and others… and they didn’t see the pollinated figs were ripening so much earlier than non-pollinated figs?

Yes, I mentioned those papers of pollination from different caprifigs and any difference noted was by a few days, not weeks. So academic research is not getting those results either.

The pollen has to be weighed to measure it, if someone wanted to do that. They could see which pollen weight had the most success. It would probably need to be a scale with .1 gram precision just to be able to go really small if wanted or to pollinate a single fig if desired.

I’m sure some of the papers that reference hand pollinating say what pollen weight they used in the methods part of a paper and that could be a good starting point.

Randomly… I just did a quick search to see if pollen weight was listed, and in the process found a paper discussing how much pollen is actually viable in a caprifig (75.60 to 86.73%), and it mentioned that the amount of sucrose had a bearing on if the pollen was able to germinate. Pollen did not germinate at all if the medium did not have sucrose. Up to 20% sucrose increased germination, but at 25-30% sucrose, germination decreased. Of course, this is in a medium used to test germination and not in an actual fig. But I think it shows that the amount of sugar someone adds to their pollen concoction could potentially affect results as well.

There are multiple factors to consider for what might be going on and no one has really delved into all of the fine points of hand pollination for figs. That’s why I think accuracy is important amongst us — we can fine tune everything and get some real data that is helpful if we work together. But throwing in info to make people think a certain thing, while leaving out other factors involved that affected results isn’t going to help us get there. We’ll stay behind and not get anywhere if we are not accurate.

" I am seeing the same results as others in California" I would not say that. As many would argue with you.
"That would be a BIG thing California growers were holding out on telling people if we were getting figs weeks earlier all of this time"
The same Cali growers that brought in figs that needed the wasp and did not realize?
"we can fine tune everything and get some real data that is helpful if we work together"
Yes I agree.
" Yes, I mentioned those papers of pollination from different caprifigs and any difference noted was by a few days, not weeks."
But still earlier.
Valerie. Not here to argue. I have read the studies and have trialed over 50 varieties of caprifig.
At this time I will just say I agree we disagree.