First Roots... Class of 2026

IAK said:
You can airlayer as soon as you want. Unless you girdle, it doesn’t hurt or set it back at all. No diameter restriction, no lignification restriction. The only restrictions are the size of the airlayering container and your support for it. After I up pot the Smith for example, I will wait until the tip is an inch or 2 above my preferred container( Ziploc sandwich bag). I wont need a support because the bag will be sitting right on top of the soil. Another thing I could do is bury the whole thing deep and wait until the whip grows roots at the base and cut it out later like a sucker.
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I like to just use containers and brace them for air layers. I don’t even girdle so lignification doesn’t matter. This branch is a rather long one but they can be short/small too. This way is easy peasy with no mistakes. It will root with time. Water like normal and no fear of it drying out. Think of it like a raised ground layer.

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TorontoJoe said:
I would try to layer the same branch again if it didn't root, rather than cut it away.

As for the scar.... I'm thinking someone is a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to aesthetics. :rolleyes:

I've shown pictures of my notching that's made some members feel physically ill! :LOL:
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You are much more patient than me. If an airlayer didn’t take, I’m gonna cut it and root it during winter.

A story from a few years ago when Cosme Manyo was fairly pricy. My cutting failed, but I got a chip bud graft to heal on an established Celeste tree. But it would not bud out no matter what. I didn’t care what the tree looked like and I was determined to get this Cosme to grow out so I could airlayer it off. Things got a little…crazy. Notching above the CM bud. Cutting all other branches to make the branch the graft was on the most apically dominant. Shaving off Celeste buds as they grew. It went, but I probably almost killed the tree in the process.
 
IAK said:
You are much more patient than me. If an airlayer didn’t take, I’m gonna cut it and root it during winter.

A story from a few years ago when Cosme Manyo was fairly pricy. My cutting failed, but I got a chip bud graft to heal on an established Celeste tree. But it would not bud out no matter what. I didn’t care what the tree looked like and I was determined to get this Cosme to grow out so I could airlayer it off. Things got a little…crazy. Notching above the CM bud. Cutting all other branches to make the branch the graft was on the most apically dominant. Shaving off Celeste buds as they grew. It went, but I probably almost killed the tree in the process.
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I don't think I've seen one heal on then not grow. Good on you for sticking it out!
 
TorontoJoe said:
I don't think I've seen one heal on then not grow. Good on you for sticking it out!
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So i have a i258, shaped like rounded W. I chipped green goblin and castagnat on the outside branches, the castagnat healed, grew 2 or 3 nodes, and hasnt done a thing since while everything else on the tree is growing consistently. 🤷‍♂️. The green goblin already has figs starting. Its healed well and grew after the grafting tape was removed but then just stopped.
 
pjmac said:
So i have a i258, shaped like rounded W. I chipped green goblin and castagnat on the outside branches, the castagnat healed, grew 2 or 3 nodes, and hasnt done a thing since while everything else on the tree is growing consistently. 🤷‍♂️. The green goblin already has figs starting. Its healed well and grew after the grafting tape was removed but then just stopped.
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Hmmmm. Grew 2-3 nodes…. Still healthy but stalled? I wish I could offer some informed feedback. I’ve had plants stall but not like that.

I would he curious to see pictures of both.
 
pjmac said:
So i have a i258, shaped like rounded W. I chipped green goblin and castagnat on the outside branches, the castagnat healed, grew 2 or 3 nodes, and hasnt done a thing since while everything else on the tree is growing consistently. 🤷‍♂️. The green goblin already has figs starting. Its healed well and grew after the grafting tape was removed but then just stopped.
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Agree with Joe, let’s see a picture. there’s no growth above? Where are they in regards to apical dominance?
 
TorontoJoe said:
Hmmmm. Grew 2-3 nodes…. Still healthy but stalled? I wish I could offer some informed feedback. I’ve had plants stall but not like that.

I would he curious to see pictures of both.
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I will have to get a picture tmw, they arent on the same branch each is on the wide branch i started them around the same time as the tree was waking up, as for apical dominance the middle main leader and the green goblin side branch all are growing around the same rate and height, the castagnat is on the other side branch and just never could keep up or try to keep up.
My only thought is the castagnat is on a branch thats from below the soil lile and the gg is on a branch that came off the main, maybe the sucker branch has its own roots now and not uptaking nutrients like the main and the branch off the main.
Its tucked in my grow room i will dig it out tomorrow and show you guys.
 
@pjmac, If I understand correctly, so 1 central leader with smaller leaders (suckers?) coming up from on either side, from below the soil line. If it’s below the soil line and the grafted Castagnat leader has roots coming off it, I would be very tempted to cut it off the main tree and plant it on its own. I think you would change it hormonally enough to possibly start growing again and direct all energy towards its now one and only leader topped with the Castagnat.

Also kind of depends on how attached you are to this I-258. You could also stump the central leader. It might serve as enough of a rejuvenation prune to again change hormones and promote growth. That leaves the 2 grafted side leaders to soak up all the resources.
 
IAK said:
@pjmac, If I understand correctly, so 1 central leader with smaller leaders (suckers?) coming up from on either side, from below the soil line. If it’s below the soil line and the grafted Castagnat leader has roots coming off it, I would be very tempted to cut it off the main tree and plant it on its own. I think you would change it hormonally enough to possibly start growing again and direct all energy towards its now one and only leader topped with the Castagnat.

Also kind of depends on how attached you are to this I-258. You could also stump the central leader. It might serve as enough of a rejuvenation prune to again change hormones and promote growth. That leaves the 2 grafted side leaders to soak up all the resources.
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So yes on the castagnat being a sucker, the gg is off a branch on main so im guessing what youre saying is correct the sucker isnt hormonally sending to that branch, at the beginning of the season the main leader and side branch and sucker i had all stumped down to the same height before i started grafting. Im debating taking that sucker out but didnt want to jump the gun but now my castagnat cutting isnt doing anything and this chip stopped probably 2 weeks ago. I got the best few pictures i could and tried to label which branches were which to explain it best
 

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It’s totally up to you, there are a lot of options. It could start growing again attached, not doing anything at all. If you separate it now and the sucker has roots and lives I am almost positive that it will start growing again. You can also have plenty of room below the grafts for air layers right now if you wanted to separate and get some growth going on those bud grafts. Then after they are airlayered off, grow out the GG and the Cas and then air layer that off again. It’s only Feb so you would have plenty of growing season to get them on their own roots, just don’t know about fruit.

Personally, if I dug down and each grafted sucker had roots, I would cut it down at the base. But I am very impatient and willing to take risks.
 
pjmac said:
So yes on the castagnat being a sucker, the gg is off a branch on main so im guessing what youre saying is correct the sucker isnt hormonally sending to that branch, at the beginning of the season the main leader and side branch and sucker i had all stumped down to the same height before i started grafting. Im debating taking that sucker out but didnt want to jump the gun but now my castagnat cutting isnt doing anything and this chip stopped probably 2 weeks ago. I got the best few pictures i could and tried to label which branches were which to explain it best
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I would tend to agree. If the suckers have well established roots I think it removing it would be the way to go... but it certainly wont hurt to wait a little longer. It's still early in the year.
 
Thanks guys, im not super experienced with seperating suckers below soil line and i do love my i258 and its starting to set fruit so i dont want to mess with the rootball too much, but maybe ill airlayer it, it deff had a root system from just moving the top soil around i could see direct roots attached to the sucker.
I have a cutting of green goblin going also so this was nore insurance i may just leave the gg on for giggles.
1 more question will the gg graft be able to hold fruit? Or do i need to support it up somehow?
 
What I would do... and this is me.. I know it's a painful thing to do, but consider removing the fig from the graft. It takes a lot of energy to make a fig, and right now the graft needs all it can get.

My $0.02
 
TorontoJoe said:
What I would do... and this is me.. I know it's a painful thing to do, but consider removing the fig from the graft. It takes a lot of energy to make a fig, and right now the graft needs all it can get.

My $0.02
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I will gladly remove the figs i care more about making sturdy plants than first year fig production. Remove the i258 figs also? Or just the ones on the graft?
 
pjmac said:
I will gladly remove the figs i care more about making sturdy plants than first year fig production. Remove the i258 figs also? Or just the ones on the graft?
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On younger trees... like in the first year, I will usually only leave 1 or 2 on for a taste, unless it's obviously growing so well that it's clearly doesn't need the help. On any graft I'd pull them all until it's well established.

On the i258.... I would start with the grafts and see if you have improvement.
 
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