Clay soil + figs - what would you do differently?

TheInvertedFlower

TheInvertedFlower

Well-known member
I’m getting ready to put about 40 trees in the ground.

- Soil is heavy, poorly draining compacted clay. The sticky kind.
- Drip irrigation is going in now.
- Another 100–150 will stay in pots.

Right now I’m thinking individual raised beds, roughly 3x3x1 ft per tree.

Fill would likely be sandy river loam + compost, maybe some grit mixed in.

A few things I’d really appreciate input from folks who know more about growing figs than me (pretty much everyone here)
  • If you’ve planted figs in heavy clay, would you do 3x3x1 or something else?
  • What has actually worked for you as a soil mix? Obviously can't buy bagged for this volume...
  • I have trees rooted this Dec/Jan - would you plant them out this spring or let them grow in pots another year?
  • Anything you wish you’d done differently when you first planted in ground?
 
As a general rule, as much organic matter as you can get mixed in. Compost, wood chips, mulch, straw, grass clippings... anything like that. Depending on how hard your clay is it may be difficult to dig down. If you've gone down as far as you can and you're not satisfied, consider raised beds to make up for the depth.

I'm sure others will have more advice on this.
 
I think it was on a Lou Monti video that Bill said he doesn’t really fertilize his in-ground trees due to the nutrient content of his clay. He certainly has very good cutting quality. My understanding of clay is that the only downside is drainage. @TheInvertedFlower, I think your plan is a good one. Same thing I would do to keep the base of the tree out of water. Just let just the roots go down to access continuous water, nutrients, and cool the tree down in the summer. I guess you can throw some gypsum down before your raised bed and mix if you are still concerned about the clay.
 
I watched a video by Gary Matsuoka and he talked about planting in clay soil. He said the main thing to be careful about is to remove the potting mix from the rootball. Anything made from bark or compost will cause root issues because the clay doesn’t breathe to release gases from the organic materials. He said to remove at least 80% of it. He said a lot of plants struggle the first few years in clay because of this reason. It causes root issues which then causes growing issues.

He also said you can line the hole with sand, pumice, etc. something non-organic to help with breathability around the roots.

Plants can adjust to clay soil it’s just trying not to alter the soil so much that it becomes two entirely different situations for the roots.

If your soil has drainage issues, then the raised beds can help.

Usually clay has a shortage of carbon and humic substances as well which affects microbial life. Putting organic matter on top can help to alter conditions gradually. Each year gets better. This is usually in the form of layers of compost and wood chips.

JADAM Microbial Solution is something that is really easy to make and can help to prepare the soil for planting. It builds microbial life which then helps to aerate the soil.

Calcium also helps to flocculate soil and is important. Gypsum is usually the preferred one for clay, depending on if it is high in sulfur already or not.
 
My soil is the same, I have to dig holes with a pick axe.....after a few years with the trees in ground they are doing well.
They are in an area that does drain fairly well...no standing water.
Placement is near the garage foundation.
I make oversized holes, score the sides a lot to promote outward growth of the roots instead of circling.
Also I mix some of the clay in with the soil I put in, it helps with you new soil not settling down so much.

All in all they seem do grow fine in clay...just more work to prep.
 
The biggest thing for me was not drowning the tree. If you dig a hole and pour water in it, does the water take a long long time to drain?So what's worked for me is not burying the rootballs deep. I leave them partially above grade and mound up to prevent drowning the rootball during heavy rains we get here sometimes in spring/summer.
 
Planting in a clay soil has been a issue for me in my area. I've been studying remedies and solutions for a while now. As Jimmy said above, Drainage is a huge issue. Drowning during the growing season and drowning and freezing solid in the winter. You dont want to create a ''pot"" in the ground. As @ktrain said an oversized and irregular hole is best. If you have the opportunity to plant on a slope, dig a drainage channel on the downhill side or at least breakup the soil well on that side of the hole. Definitely do not use an auger to make a finished hole. That machine will only make a perfectly round space for your roots to circle and boundup. The auger will also compact the soil on the side of the hole making root expansion even harder.
 
I have a thought and wonder if something like this would work. I have water that doesn't drain good in my front yard and have researched and found vertical drainage as a possible solution. I wonder if something like this would help for those areas that don't drain well. Dig/drill a hole deep past the hard pack layer and then fill mostly up with drainage rock and plant the fig on top. I tend to think this might work. The roots shouldn't drown if it the water can drain deeper and the roots should be able to grow down through the rocks and out on the sides. Opinions?
 
superdave336 said:
I have a thought and wonder if something like this would work. I have water that doesn't drain good in my front yard and have researched and found vertical drainage as a possible solution. I wonder if something like this would help for those areas that don't drain well. Dig/drill a hole deep past the hard pack layer and then fill mostly up with drainage rock and plant the fig on top. I tend to think this might work. The roots shouldn't drown if it the water can drain deeper and the roots should be able to grow down through the rocks and out on the sides. Opinions?
Click to expand...
I like the idea, basically a vertical drain field.

The situation at my parents house was the hard pan clay was over20 ft deep. That's as deep as we dug when installing a new drain field years ago.
 
DCallahan said:
Planting in a clay soil has been a issue for me in my area. I've been studying remedies and solutions for a while now. As Jimmy said above, Drainage is a huge issue. Drowning during the growing season and drowning and freezing solid in the winter. You dont want to create a ''pot"" in the ground. As @ktrain said an oversized and irregular hole is best. If you have the opportunity to plant on a slope, dig a drainage channel on the downhill side or at least breakup the soil well on that side of the hole. Definitely do not use an auger to make a finished hole. That machine will only make a perfectly round space for your roots to circle and boundup. The auger will also compact the soil on the side of the hole making root expansion even harder.
Click to expand...
Really good advice, you can also place a drainage tube for sloped land, but hardware cloth the end so no critters can get in there.
An advantage I have is all my land is sloped to varying degrees....it helps a lot.
 
RosyPosy said:
I watched a video by Gary Matsuoka and he talked about planting in clay soil. He said the main thing to be careful about is to remove the potting mix from the rootball. Anything made from bark or compost will cause root issues because the clay doesn’t breathe to release gases from the organic materials. He said to remove at least 80% of it. He said a lot of plants struggle the first few years in clay because of this reason. It causes root issues which then causes growing issues.

He also said you can line the hole with sand, pumice, etc. something non-organic to help with breathability around the roots.

Plants can adjust to clay soil it’s just trying not to alter the soil so much that it becomes two entirely different situations for the roots.

If your soil has drainage issues, then the raised beds can help.

Usually clay has a shortage of carbon and humic substances as well which affects microbial life. Putting organic matter on top can help to alter conditions gradually. Each year gets better. This is usually in the form of layers of compost and wood chips.

JADAM Microbial Solution is something that is really easy to make and can help to prepare the soil for planting. It builds microbial life which then helps to aerate the soil.

Calcium also helps to flocculate soil and is important. Gypsum is usually the preferred one for clay, depending on if it is high in sulfur already or not.
Click to expand...
You had me at "I watched a video by Gary Matsuoka."
 
DCallahan said:
I like the idea, basically a vertical drain field.

The situation at my parents house was the hard pan clay was over20 ft deep. That's as deep as we dug when installing a new drain field years ago.
Click to expand...
20' is too deep. Most videos I seen they were like 2' or so to get to the hard pack layer.
 
TheInvertedFlower said:
I’m getting ready to put about 40 trees in the ground.

- Soil is heavy, poorly draining compacted clay. The sticky kind.
- Drip irrigation is going in now.
- Another 100–150 will stay in pots.

Right now I’m thinking individual raised beds, roughly 3x3x1 ft per tree.

Fill would likely be sandy river loam + compost, maybe some grit mixed in.

A few things I’d really appreciate input from folks who know more about growing figs than me (pretty much everyone here)
  • If you’ve planted figs in heavy clay, would you do 3x3x1 or something else?
  • What has actually worked for you as a soil mix? Obviously can't buy bagged for this volume...
  • I have trees rooted this Dec/Jan - would you plant them out this spring or let them grow in pots another year?
  • Anything you wish you’d done differently when you first planted in ground?
Click to expand...
Figs love clay soil. It is loaded with a bunch of nutrients and once trees get established you practically do not even have to worry after them as clay holds so much moisture. I’m in zone 6A formally 5B and we have a bunch of clay soil here in the Chicago land South suburbs. Best advice I can give you is dig a hole that is as deep as it is wide. Generally 2 feet deep by 2 feet wide minimum. At the bottom of your hole you will add 2 inches of crushed up rocks much like what they use under driveways before they pour the concrete. Once you have your bottom 2 inches of broken up rocks and it can be more if you wish but 2 inches is a good minimum amount I would suggest you mix up your fill in mix. Equal parts sand of any kind so go with what ever is cheap, mushroom composts, and miracle gro cactus / palm / citrus soil. The rocks underneath will provide drainage and minerals, the sand keeps things loose so roots can grow easily and fill up the hole so the tree gets a real good rootball, the mirical gro cactus / palm / citrus soil will provide good drainage and nutrition, the mushroom compost will add plenty of organic material. Once you have that mixed up cut it 50/50 with the natural soil you have. You can go less on the natural soil you have but do not go over 50%. If your soil is acidic be sure to mix in some lime. A bonus is if you have azomite you can then sprinkle that on top around the base of the tree and work it in with a small rake. Tye tree will get a nice root ball established and then it will slowly toss down more tap roots into that clay soil pulling up moisture and nutrition from the nutrient dense clay. You may need to water them for the first 2 years but after that all you should need to do is go pick figs off it when they are ripe.
 
Thank you all!

@TorontoJoe @RosyPosy @cdh the organic matter + soil biology side of this makes sense. I probably need to think more about what I’m doing at the root zone and not just building boxes.

@DCallahan @ktrain @JC Figgy the drainage warnings are loud and clear. No pots in the ground, no perfectly round auger holes, plant a bit high.

@IAK @Italian4u good reminder that clay itself isn’t evil. If I manage drainage right, the nutrient side could actually be a plus.

@Figjake @superdave336 interesting ideas with the barrels and vertical drains. I’m trying not to overcomplicate this but I like seeing creative solutions.

Still digesting everything. Appreciate you all taking the time
 
One last thought... and I have done this but you have to decide on your comfort level. Replace the soil altogether. In my case it was a matter of removing an area that had lots of bricks, concrete and stones shallow buried when they built my house. I decided to rent an excavator and a bin. I removed 10 - 12 yards of material and replaced with triple mix. A mini backhoe loader tractor is great for this if you have access as you can use it for the removal and to bring the new soil to the location... And you get to play with an excavator, which is something I really enjoy :)

Just food for thought.
 
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