Breeding for brebas

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figwidgeon

Member
Hello - I'm new to this forum. I am in the pacific northwest and am interested in breeding a heavy breba producer; maybe hybridizing something with the desert king to give the fruit a slightly different look and/or flavor but have similar breba productivity. Intriguingly I read on this website (by @GoodFriendMike I think), that breba persistence is mostly determined by the female tree, whereas main-crop persistence is inherited from the pollinator. If that is true, then if I am hybridizing with a DK can I be more accepting of a wider variety of capri figs, since I don't mind creating another San Pedro variety that doesn't hold a main crop? Secondly, I do not understand profichi persistence - I read that not all profichis are persistent without the wasp. Is that correct? I do not understand the mechanism of this, since they should be the pollen bearers. Can someone explain this to me? Thank you! - figwidgeon
 
I don't have nearly as much to offer as others so I'll allow them to give you some more informed advice.

I am curious though... how far up the PNW are you? Do you know your growing zone? The recommendations you receive will likely be a different for inland Washington vs say, coastal Oregon.
 
Yeah thanks good point - I am in the Seattle region. So - barely time for main crops. Some people have said they see the occasional DK main ripen from parthenocarpy but I don't think I have ever seen that if for no other reason than I doubt they would ripen even if we had a fig wasp here. But that adds to my next question: can breba produce viable seeds if they are pollinated at the proper time? One idea I have floated is that, since our DK breba ripen during maybe the first 2 weeks of August, perhaps I could pollinate from mail-order pollen from people with profichi ripening in early July and hand-pollinate the breba...?
 
Breba persistence from everything I have read. Is determined by the female. So any Capri that has persistent profichi will suit your needs.
The need for persistent profichi is to get pollen in a non-wasp area. But if you get pollen from someone in a wasp area. It can be used to create new San pedro types.
 
@GoodFriendMike - thanks, great to know. I am interested in how a profichi becomes "persistent." In a non-persistent Smyrna female fig, for example, being the recipient of pollen seems to signal to the tree to keep from dropping the fruit. If pollen keeps a female non-persistent fig from dropping fruit, what is it in a capri fig that signals it to retain its profichi? Does the wasp excrete some hormone? Genuinely curious about this, I do not know much about the biology of figs.

Additionally - how early does pollen form? If I have a persistent breba on a capri fig and I am trying to pollinate a breba fig, I am assuming there will be some problems with timing (e.g. breba maybe ripens too late to be pollinated by capri fig which is ripening along similar time-line). Is that true? Is there viable pollen in a capri fig that can be taken from it for hand pollination before the profichi is "ripe"? (Whatever that means)
 
Don't know if this can help but Girsh profichi is Persistent (and doesnt drop and produces pollen w/o the wasp) and it's Mammoni crop it's "wet" meaning it ripens like a common fig and is sweet, both the skin and flesh.
 
figwidgeon said:
@GoodFriendMike - thanks, great to know. I am interested in how a profichi becomes "persistent." In a non-persistent Smyrna female fig, for example, being the recipient of pollen seems to signal to the tree to keep from dropping the fruit. If pollen keeps a female non-persistent fig from dropping fruit, what is it in a capri fig that signals it to retain its profichi? Does the wasp excrete some hormone? Genuinely curious about this, I do not know much about the biology of figs.

Additionally - how early does pollen form? If I have a persistent breba on a capri fig and I am trying to pollinate a breba fig, I am assuming there will be some problems with timing (e.g. breba maybe ripens too late to be pollinated by capri fig which is ripening along similar time-line). Is that true? Is there viable pollen in a capri fig that can be taken from it for hand pollination before the profichi is "ripe"? (Whatever that means)
Click to expand...
To pollinate breba I have put Capri in a greenhouse to waken them early. But you can store/freeze pollen from the year before.
 
Kid Fig said:
Don't know if this can help but Girsh profichi is Persistent (and doesnt drop and produces pollen w/o the wasp) and it's Mammoni crop it's "wet" meaning it ripens like a common fig and is sweet, both the skin and flesh.
Click to expand...
Girsh Park is a strange one for me. It so far ripens a good bit of it's profichi but not all. Mammoni/main is somewhat edible. (not the bottom section). And does produce a decent mamme crop. Which my persistent Capri seldom do. And if so drop.
 
figwidgeon said:
Yeah thanks good point - I am in the Seattle region. So - barely time for main crops. Some people have said they see the occasional DK main ripen from parthenocarpy but I don't think I have ever seen that if for no other reason than I doubt they would ripen even if we had a fig wasp here. But that adds to my next question: can breba produce viable seeds if they are pollinated at the proper time? One idea I have floated is that, since our DK breba ripen during maybe the first 2 weeks of August, perhaps I could pollinate from mail-order pollen from people with profichi ripening in early July and hand-pollinate the breba...?
Click to expand...

You got some good advice above.... the only thing I want to add is that you shouldn't sell yourself short. I'm in Toronto and grow pretty much only for main crop. Not only in pots. I do it in ground as well.

On this topic, I can be somewhat more useful.... If you're interested :)
 
Kid Fig said:
Don't know if this can help but Girsh profichi is Persistent (and doesnt drop and produces pollen w/o the wasp) and it's Mammoni crop it's "wet" meaning it ripens like a common fig and is sweet, both the skin and flesh.
Click to expand...
I have a breva de galicia that produces an edible capri fig, or so Harvey believes -- but I do not see pollen on the inside, it also is "wet" and juicy. Does that mean it doesn't have pollen?
 
TorontoJoe said:
You got some good advice above.... the only thing I want to add is that you shouldn't sell yourself short. I'm in Toronto and grow pretty much only for main crop. Not only in pots. I do it in ground as well.

On this topic, I can be somewhat more useful.... If you're interested :)
Click to expand...
Yes I will be interested at some point! I have a few pots around but not a lot of space. I have a Bourjasotta Grise / Socorro Black in a pot, and a couple other varieties but I have never really put them inside to warm up and leaf out for an early start, maybe I should do this. I haven't gotten anything to ripen on the Bourjasotta Grise yet.
 
figwidgeon said:
Yes I will be interested at some point! I have a few pots around but not a lot of space. I have a Bourjasotta Grise / Socorro Black in a pot, and a couple other varieties but I have never really put them inside to warm up and leaf out for an early start, maybe I should do this. I haven't gotten anything to ripen on the Bourjasotta Grise yet.
Click to expand...

They can be warmed up outdoors. At least the root zone where it really counts
 
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