Cutting mortality

[SpiritFarmVa]

I do see people recommending hot water from time to time to clean cuttings

Using hot water can be a great way to revive a cutting that may be a bit desiccated. But 120F is the max temp, Or you might damage the cutting. I use this as a rescue technique more than for disease control.
Although if you had a tree with a Heavy FMV load going through a hot water sanitization may lower that load. But expect some of the cuttings to be damaged.

 

[Inflorescence]

I don’t use hormone much on cuttings but I’m curious. I imagine it has to bud out eventually… I wonder how long they can go without putting on new growth vegetative growth

This was from some research I did on rooting hormone:

“What the hormone is actually doing is suppressing the plant's ability to differentiate between root, stem and leaf cells. When exposed to auxin, the plant's fresh cells essentially "forget" they're able to make a variety of different types of cells, and just start replicating root cells, which are the most basic type.

“…Overuse of rooting hormone can lead to excessive root growth, which can cause the plant to become unstable or even die.”

Essentially it causes a cutting to use all of its energy to make roots and then it has nothing left to grow a shoot.

Also this:
“…too heavy a dosage can dehydrate or burn the plant's stems, change the plant's color or keep it from flowering.”

I think that is why many get rot with it.

Plus, some brands contain fungicides or other ingredients in them. So it also could essentially be killing off the things necessary for a plant to grow.

 

[TorontoJoe]

If you use to much rooting hormone. The cutting sometimes uses all it's energy pushing out roots that it dies shortly after.
You need a good combination of roots and growth. I stopped using it.

I had too many problems using it on cuttings but for layers, supported by the mother plant it seems to speed things up... but I don't think it's necessary

This was from some research I did on rooting hormone:

“What the hormone is actually doing is suppressing the plant's ability to differentiate between root, stem and leaf cells. When exposed to auxin, the plant's fresh cells essentially "forget" they're able to make a variety of different types of cells, and just start replicating root cells, which are the most basic type.

“…Overuse of rooting hormone can lead to excessive root growth, which can cause the plant to become unstable or even die.”

Essentially it causes a cutting to use all of its energy to make roots and then it has nothing left to grow a shoot.

Also this:
“…too heavy a dosage can dehydrate or burn the plant's stems, change the plant's color or keep it from flowering.”

I think that is why many get rot with it.

Plus, some brands contain fungicides or other ingredients in them. So it also could essentially be killing off the things necessary for a plant to grow.

I've heard of people using things like honey, cinnamon... even saliva as a rooting stimulator. I don't know if there's any science behind any of these but if there is, I wonder if anyone of those are safer..

 

[TorontoJoe]

Using hot water can be a great way to revive a cutting that may be a bit desiccated. But 120F is the max temp, Or you might damage the cutting. I use this as a rescue technique more than for disease control.
Although if you had a tree with a Heavy FMV load going through a hot water sanitization may lower that load. But expect some of the cuttings to be damaged.

I've heard of soaking to rehydrate... but why hot?

 

[SpiritFarmVa]

I've heard of soaking to rehydrate... but why hot?

I don’t know if it is actually a thing or not but I feel the heat “wakes” up the cutting.

 

[SpiritFarmVa]

I've heard of people using things like honey, cinnamon.

Honey and cinnamon have anti microbial properties that protect the cutting.

 

[ktrain]

Awe shucks - what's funny is that were I to say story like sentences instead of writing them down it would've been more like:

I went deep into a forest and found a magical fig tree and all of a sudden a crazy werewolf-dude was trying to kill me from getting some branches so I bribed his @$$...

It's like my brain power increases IF I don't speak but just think lol.

I look forward to more in the future.
And thanks for the "stuff" brother. lol

 

[Inflorescence]

Using hot water can be a great way to revive a cutting that may be a bit desiccated. But 120F is the max temp, Or you might damage the cutting. I use this as a rescue technique more than for disease control.
Although if you had a tree with a Heavy FMV load going through a hot water sanitization may lower that load. But expect some of the cuttings to be damaged.

I’ve found I’ve been able to revive them well with room temperature water and a longer soak, at least overnight, maybe up to 48 hrs.

FMV is another point of contention though because it seems to be a nutrition issue more than an actual virus causing disease. It often goes away with proper feeding and with some growth.

I’m not sure if there have ever been actual studies showing that the virus itself is what is causing the issue as opposed to it also being there at the same time, while not being there on a healthy tree. It also does not seem to spread between trees. I’ve had rooting cuttings with indications of FMV brushing right up against healthy rooted cuttings and no transfer has ever occured.

I really would like to know if FMV type symptoms are just because a newly rooted tree is not stabilized yet or if it was because the mother tree had poor nutrition so therefore there wasn’t much left in the cutting to use. I know calcium and other micronutrient deficiencies can cause some similar symptoms to FMV.

 

[ktrain]

I don’t use hormone much on cuttings but I’m curious. I imagine it has to bud out eventually… I wonder how long they can go without putting on new growth vegetative growth

I don't use it either, not necessary.
Healthy cutting will root without it.

 

[GoodFriendMike]

I had too many problems using it on cuttings but for layers, supported by the mother plant it seems to speed things up... but I don't think it's necessary



I've heard of people using things like honey, cinnamon... even saliva as a rooting stimulator. I don't know if there's any science behind any of these but if there is, I wonder if anyone of those are safer..

I bought the super strong stuff to try on some citrus marcot's this year. Hope it works.

 

[SpiritFarmVa]

I bought the super strong stuff to try on some citrus marcot's this year. Hope it works.

Citrus roots pretty easy I’m surprised you’d need the strong stuff.

 

[Inflorescence]

I've heard of people using things like honey, cinnamon... even saliva as a rooting stimulator. I don't know if there's any science behind any of these but if there is, I wonder if anyone of those are safer..

I’ve tried them all, including saliva! At least, I’ve tried the ones I’ve heard of. Doing side by side comparisons at the time, I didn’t get much difference between using them or not using them. I think it makes people feel like they are doing “something” to help get it going.

Endophytic bacteria that are in certain plant tissues which help to provide growth hormone may help to stimulate rooting. A guy studying it recommended to take fresh new leaves, or to take juicy roots, crush the juice out of them and use that to help stimulate rooting because they will contain that bacteria and hormone. It just is hard because most don’t have access to that when rooting in winter… maybe roots, but still.

 

[TorontoJoe]

Honey and cinnamon have anti microbial properties that protect the cutting.

I wonder if garlic would work as well then? I grow loads of it!

 

[TorontoJoe]

I’ve tried them all, including saliva! At least, I’ve tried the ones I’ve heard of. Doing side by side comparisons at the time, I didn’t get much difference between using them or not using them. I think it makes people feel like they are doing “something” to help get it going.

Endophytic bacteria that are in certain plant tissues which help to provide growth hormone may help to stimulate rooting. A guy studying it recommended to take fresh new leaves, or to take juicy roots, crush the juice out of them and use that to help stimulate rooting because they will contain that bacteria and hormone. It just is hard because most don’t have access to that when rooting in winter… maybe roots, but still.

I'm imagining a scenario where my wife walks into the room as I'm spitting on cuttings.... I could see that getting weird, fast.

 

[GoodFriendMike]

Citrus roots pretty easy I’m surprised you’d need the strong stuff.

I have had good luck with growing them from seed and getting new good fruit.
But have not had luck rooting or marcotting them yet.
Hoping the strong stuff will help with that. If not I have some trifoliate seedling's growing.

 

[Kid Fig]

I was hoping for details of the fig finding adventure. Thank you for providing that @Kid Fig, but also any details about the actual Tree / variety. Due to the generosity of one of our benefactors I actually have a few cuttings.

Let's see...

It has produced both breba and main crop and they are virtually identical both in shape and color with the brebas being slightly larger.

The brebas are just as good as the main crop and they do take longer to ripen than your average fig but I discovered that they can hang and dry without spoiling (like a mt etna) - and you definitely want that - the only difference is the interior doesn't dry; it stays jammy.

Once the fig hangs straight down like a boxing speed bag (and as a matter of fact I would flick it like a speed bag) that fig is at its peak and the stem is very secure - you do have to use a little muscle to remove it (the stem is not too short so not an issue as far as tearing the fig when picking).

The leaf pattern is unique on some of the foliage and the fig itself can develope cracks that are quite appealing and the skin developes bloom and is a cross between red leather and purple in color with splashes of some green (partially shaded fig surface).

Productivity (initially) is a little on the lower side (like Black Madeira or NSDC for example)) but each season it is producing more figs with maturity and the fact it produces twice a year (breba and main) it is in my fig list of Quality over Quantity - and I happily collect both types

And finally it has a very ripe mango and caramel/honey flavor to it - it has maintained this flavor since the beginning and in 3 seasons has yet to dimish or lose that flavor.

Oh and the name I came up with was a description of where I found it since I had no idea what kind of fig it was.

RioNON --- Rio (sp. for River) Near / ON
Santana (Santa Ana)

 

[SpiritFarmVa]

FMV is another point of contention

I recently read somewhere they aren’t even certain it’s a virus.
As far as the expression of FMV and nutrition, I feel that with proper nutrition the tree is able to suppress the disease. And a newly rooted cutting can’t suppress it yet.
There probably are many instances that a new tree is struggling and it’s just attributed to FMV.

 

[TorontoJoe]

Let's see...

It has produced both breba and main crop and they are virtually identical both in shape and color with the brebas being slightly larger.

The brebas are just as good as the main crop and they do take longer to ripen than your average fig but I discovered that they can hang and dry without spoiling (like a mt etna) - and you definitely want that - the only difference is the interior doesn't dry; it stays jammy.

Once the fig hangs straight down like a boxing speed bag (and as a matter of fact I would flick it like a speed bag) that fig is at its peak and the stem is very secure - you do have to use a little muscle to remove it (the stem is not short so not an issue as far as tearing the fig when picking).

The leaf pattern is unique on most of the foliage and the fig itself can develope cracks that are quite appealing and the skin developed bloom and I a cross between red leather and purple in color with splashes of some green (partially shaded fig surface).

Productivity (initially) is a little on the lower side (like Black Madeira or NSDC for example)) but each season it is producing more figs with maturity and the fact it produces twice a year (breba and main) it is in my fig list of Quality over Quantity - and I happily collect both types

And finally it has a very ripe mango and caramel/honey flavor to it - it has maintained this flavor since the beginning and in 3 seasons has yet to dimish or lose that flavor.

Oh and the name I came up with was a description of where I found it since I had no idea what kind of fig it was.

RioNON --- Rio (sp. For River) Near / ON
Santana (Santa Ana)

Brilliant name backstory!

 

[SpiritFarmVa]

I wonder if garlic would work as well then? I grow loads of it!

Garlic is a precious commodity to rub on tree sticks

 

[TorontoJoe]

I recently read somewhere they aren’t even certain it’s a virus.
As far as the expression of FMV and nutrition, I feel that with proper nutrition the tree is able to suppress the disease. And a newly rooted cutting can’t suppress it yet.
There probably are many instances that a new tree is struggling and it’s just attributed to FMV.

I knew I read it a while back but I had to look it up.... The one place I saw it referenced referred to it as a Caulimovirus that has been identified. I believe it's related to a virus that causes mosaic diseases in other plants.

Untangling the taxonomy of dahlia mosaic virus - Archives of Virology

In this brief note, we review the taxonomic history of dahlia mosaic virus (DMV) and related viruses. DMV is the only officially recognized caulimovirus known to infect dahlia (Dahlia variabilis) plants, although this virus appears to be relatively rare as a pathogen compared to a more recently...

link.springer.com

Garlic is a precious commodity to rub on tree sticks

Yeah.... the only sticks getting garlic rubbed on them here are "bread"