Ficus johannis subspecies discussion

[Charlie Dodgson]

Ficus johannis has two subspecies:

• Ficus johannis subsp. johannis
• Ficus johannis subsp. afghanistanica

F.j. afghanistanica is said to have larger leaves and fruit than its sister subspecies.

F.j. afghanistanica still has native populations in central Iran. F.j. johannis is indigenous to north-easternmost Iran and might have originally been synonymous with Anjeer Kohi.

These plants, plus crosses of them among themselves and other Ficus are now circulating in the U.S.

What pictures and details can you share?

Here's two photos of possibly pure breds.

F.j. johannis at Kew RBG:


F.j. afghanistanica from Gossler Farms:

 

[Figology]

Any idea why the sub species is always lowercase?

 

[Charlie Dodgson]

Any idea why the sub species is always lowercase?

Binomial nomenclature - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Charlie Dodgson]

In the photos above, the leaf margins of the two specimens differ. The plant labeled F.j. afghanistanica from Gossler Farms has relatively smooth margins, while the F.j. johannis at the Kew has small serrations.

 

[epiphyte]

merry christmas

 

[GoodFriendMike]

merry christmas

I like the ones with the red stems. They a very beautiful tree's.

 

[epiphyte]

on inaturalist i disagreed that this plant is ficus johannis. the person who shared the observation disagreed with me. so i dug up the type description (p. 1154)....

Folia parva supra aspera subtus tomentello-scabra profunde lobato-partita vel laciniata lobis et laciniis lobulatis undulato-crispis, fructus parvi velutini ovato-pyriformes vel globosi breviter stipitati.

my bad translation...

Leaves small, rough above, fuzzy-rough below, deeply divided major lobes cut into smaller lobes further cut wavy-curly, small velutinous fruits, ovate-pyriform or globose, shortly clustered.

basically, deeply dissected snowflake leaves.

richard, can you supply a better translation? "lobato" "lobis" "lobulatis" all refer to different types of lobes?

 

[Charlie Dodgson]

richard, can you supply a better translation?

No, but I can tell you that Ficus johannis is a category -- not a plant. You see, C. Linneaus thought that "species" was the smallest division possible. But we have since found that sometimes "species" is not enough. Such is the case with Ficus johannis.

 

[GoodFriendMike]

From seed of small dried figs from Iran.

 

[epiphyte]

i love it! but just how small were the dried figs? i find it hard to believe that there'd be much demand for dried johannis figs. makes more sense that there'd be way more demand for carica figs, which happened to be pollinated by "weed" johannis figs.

 

[Charlie Dodgson]

From seed of small dried figs from Iran.

The mature leaf margins match those of native F. johannis subsp. afghanistanica in central Iran.

 

[GoodFriendMike]

i love it! but just how small were the dried figs? i find it hard to believe that there'd be much demand for dried johannis figs. makes more sense that there'd be way more demand for carica figs, which happened to be pollinated by "weed" johannis figs.

A little bigger than celeste.
Good flavor as well.
Hoping one of these is male and one female.
If not I will have to order some dried figs.

 

[Charlie Dodgson]

@GoodFriendMike
How does the texture of the stalks of those two plants compare with F. carica plants of the same age?

 

[GoodFriendMike]

@GoodFriendMike
How does the texture of the stalks of those two plants compare with F. carica plants of the same age?

I will go check.
I know the leaves are a lot rougher feeling.
If I put these two next to two Carica and two Palmata.
I can tell them apart blindfolded from the feel of the leaves.
Give me a few. I will go check the stalks.

 

[GoodFriendMike]

The stalk texture reminds me more of my palmata's and palmata/carica crosses than Carica.
Except it does also feel like one Carica Capri that originate's from Sakhnin
Could have to do with parentage.

 

[Charlie Dodgson]

The stalk texture reminds me more of my palmata's and palmata/carica crosses than Carica.

That's another data point in favor of them being purebred.