Treating Spider Mites

[RandyK]

It was suggested the I create a topic on treating spider mites.  Almost a year ago I developed a really bad infestation of spider mites on my fig cuttings that I was rooting in a grow room.  The cuttings were on a heat mat and under grow lights.  I had never had spider mites, so was completely unaware of what they were, what they look like and what they would do to my plants.  And they developed and spread very quickly.  Suddenly all of my cuttings were struggling and looked like they were going to fail.  When I finally examined them closely and researched on the internet what could be going wrong, I discovered that it was spider mites.
 
This video that I’ve attached seemed like the best one that I found (having watched many in my search for a solution) for treating spider mites.  The person in the video is well spoken and explains the recipe (basically an insecticidal soap with some extra ingredients) and how to use it.  It is pretty simple and does not use toxic chemicals.  Make sure you use this once a week for 3 to 4 weeks.  I used it once and it did wonders, but then the spider mites came back.  By treating every week for 4 weeks, you should be disrupting the entire life cycle of the spider mites.  So if you missed some eggs, larva, nymph or adults in the first or even the second spraying, the multiple treatments will get the remainder.  You can use the big sprayer he has, but I just used one of those little hand spray bottles…they are cheap and easy.  Get one of those that still sprays no matter what angle it is at.  I was spraying about 20 cuttings, so didn’t need a bigger sprayer.
 
What I found is that it is very important to treat the spider mite issue as soon as you find it.  They spread quickly and this is one problem that will not go away.  It will only get worse and, if you aren’t careful, the spider mites can easily spread.
 
This worked well for my cuttings and would be great for any houseplants as well.  What I am not sure of is how practical it is for large scale applications outside.
 
As an FYI: I got the Castile soaps on Amazon, but I’m sure there are other sources too.  And hydrogen peroxide and rubbing alcohol are easy to get (and inexpensive).
 
Just some final notes about the video itself.  I think it is very well done.  He does talk about and put in a plug for their Liqui-Dirt fertilizer at about the 21-minute mark and in the last minute he is talking about and promoting their store, but other than that I think it is a very good resource.

Here is the video link:   

 

[ktrain]

I had them at one time...like where do they even come from!
They just appeared on my cuttings one day.
I have a bottle of insecticidal soap though...did fairly well.
So odd how critters seem to show up out of thin air!

 

[RandyK]

I had them at one time...like where do they even come from!
They just appeared on my cuttings one day.
I have a bottle of insecticidal soap though...did fairly well.
So odd how critters seem to show up out of thin air!

I agree!  They just seem to appear and and wreak havoc on our plants!  I've wondered the same thing!

 

[Figless]

@"RandyK"#37  @"ktrain"#2 . Hope all is well in Georgia tonight my friends. I hear there's some wonderment about where spider mites come from, and how they just appear like magic overnight. Not to worry gentle figfanatic members I have the answers. First off spider mites come from their mommy spider mites. I am glad I could clear that up for you. There's lots of effective ways to control them, but once you have them indoors, in hot weather it's very very difficult to eradicate them. Almost always you bring them indoors yourself. Like the day you get home from work and your strawberries, or blackberries look ripe and delicious. Or you just want to pick some lettuce for a quick salad. Then you go visit your true passion your expensive cuttings in your propagation Center. You don't wash you don't change your clothes you just jump right into your propagation center right after gardening Outdoors. That's how they appear out of nowhere. You just bring them indoors from Outdoors. If you hate dealing with various past like white flies, thrips, and of course mischievous spider mites, shower, and wash your hair put on freshly washed clothes, and you're rarely have pests appear out of nowhere.

BTW I love the video very informative about the life cycle of spider mites, and how best to control them. Thank you so much Randy for posting this video, and this thread.

 

[RandyK]

@"RandyK"#37  @"ktrain"#2 . Hope all is well in Georgia tonight my friends. I hear there's some wonderment about where spider mites come from, and how they just appear like magic overnight. Not to worry gentle figfanatic members I have the answers. First off spider mites come from their mommy spider mites. I am glad I could clear that up for you. There's lots of effective ways to control them, but once you have them indoors, in hot weather it's very very difficult to eradicate them. Almost always you bring them indoors yourself. Like the day you get home from work and your strawberries, or blackberries look ripe and delicious. Or you just want to pick some lettuce for a quick salad. Then you go visit your true passion your expensive cuttings in your propagation Center. You don't wash you don't change your clothes you just jump right into your propagation center right after gardening Outdoors. That's how they appear out of nowhere. You just bring them indoors from Outdoors. If you hate dealing with various past like white flies, thrips, and of course mischievous spider mites, shower, and wash your hair put on freshly washed clothes, and you're rarely have pests appear out of nowhere.

BTW I love the video very informative about the life cycle of spider mites, and how best to control them. Thank you so much Randy for posting this video, and this thread.

Very good to know where they come from, but also that it is important to shower and wash our hair before working with our cuttings...but I think it sounds like there should be this last step...


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[Figless]

@"RandyK"#37 ... oh my God that is so funny. You got me laughing, and laughing. But even though it's funny, and annoying always starting your day off in your propagation Center before you start gardening outside is a great way to avoid a lot of insect pests. The shower, fresh clothes, and indoor shoes is the best insecticide in the world

 

[RandyK]

@"RandyK"#37 ... oh my God that is so funny. You got me laughing, and laughing. But even though it's funny, and annoying always starting your day off in your propagation Center before you start gardening outside is a great way to avoid a lot of insect pests. The shower, fresh clothes, and indoor shoes is the best insecticide in the world

In all seriousness, what you say makes sense.  The spider mites "hitch hike" in with us when we come back in from the yard.  It would explain how they just seem to appear out of no where.

 

[TorontoJoe]

I like his method of using spiders as an indicator that there are spider mites around. Mites are so small you might not know until it's too late... Seeing spiders coming to feed could be a canary in the coal mine.
@"RandyK"#37  - What you say about keeping it clean in the grow room is no joke. I have a pretty solid leafy green NFT hydro setup that feeds my family fresh veggies all winter. I had to get stung twice before I realized that I was contaminating the room. I would come in from the garden and go straight to handle the plants in the basement. I tried all sorts of solutions but once they got in... I could not get rid of them... The first time it was aphids and the second it was thrips.. I lost both battles and in the end had to shut the whole thing down and let it all sit dry for month before rebooting the system. I've learned my lesson. I clean myself up and change my clothes before going in there. I just don't want to deal with it again. It's a real setback
Does anyone use Spinosad indoors? I know it's not technically "approved" for indoor use, but it seems so much more benign than so many things that are.

 

[RandyK]

I like his method of using spiders as an indicator that there are spider mites around. Mites are so small you might not know until it's too late... Seeing spiders coming to feed could be a canary in the coal mine.
@"RandyK"#37  - What you say about keeping it clean in the grow room is no joke. I have a pretty solid leafy green NFT hydro setup that feeds my family fresh veggies all winter. I had to get stung twice before I realized that I was contaminating the room. I would come in from the garden and go straight to handle the plants in the basement. I tried all sorts of solutions but once they got in... I could not get rid of them... The first time it was aphids and the second it was thrips.. I lost both battles and in the end had to shut the whole thing down and let it all sit dry for month before rebooting the system. I've learned my lesson. I clean myself up and change my clothes before going in there. I just don't want to deal with it again. It's a real setback
Does anyone use Spinosad indoors? I know it's not technically "approved" for indoor use, but it seems so much more benign than so many things that are.

Wow, I am very impressed that you grow veggies indoors for your family during the winter months.  Very cool!  I don't think many people do that.  Can't get any fresher or healthier than that.  I have read in several places that it is okay to use spinosad indoors.  I have not used spinosad myself yet, but it seems like it is a good choice since I think it is one of the least toxic pesticides.

I guess getting spider mites was a good wake up call for me.  They were REALLY tough to get rid of, so don't want to go through that again.  I am also a lot more careful now with my indoor growing set up.  I think my cuttings were always cleaned and disinfected really well and in sterile DE medium, which has worked well for me.  But now if I ever bring in any plants or cuttings that are in soil, they go into a separate room that is the "quarantine" room so that I can observe and make sure they are not infected or infested in any way.  I will definitely keep it in mind from now on to not just go into the grow rooms from straight outdoors, but to change and disinfect first.  I hadn't thought of that until you and @"Figless"#18 mentioned it here.

I'm curious, what would you consider the easiest and best veggies to grow indoors?  I hadn't ever thought of doing that, but since I have the grow areas set up already, might be a rewarding project to try.  I guess it could take a bit of a different set up depending on the veggies being grown.

 

[TorontoJoe]

@"RandyK"#37 
I’m out most of the day with my kid but later tonight I’ll give you a good overview of what I’m doing indoors and my setups. What I’m growing etc 

There’s been a lot of time pressure but I want to get some more specific sections for things like I door growing and pest management

 

[PapaFig]

You have to be sure to get the underside of the leaves when you spray.  Good quality neem oil (cold pressed) works well, soapy water, horticultural oil in a spray bottle, whatever you have just treat as quickly as possible.
Alternate treatments, spray thoroughly and completely.  
They thrive inside and are rarely a problem outside.  
They are very tiny so if you can get a 30X lighted loupe/scope that is very helpful I have found.

 

[RandyK]

@"RandyK"#37 
I’m out most of the day with my kid but later tonight I’ll give you a good overview of what I’m doing indoors and my setups. What I’m growing etc 

There’s been a lot of time pressure but I want to get some more specific sections for things like I door growing and pest management

@"TorontoJoe"#1 That would be great!  No rush...family stuff definitely comes first.

And I think the indoor growing and pest management dedicated sections is a great idea!

Don't forget a section on "processed" or "cured" meats...not sure what you would call that.  Maybe call it "traditional recipes"?  Or something like that?  All I know is every time you or Tinyfish or others post the things you are making...they look amazing and make my mouth water!  I think it is great that you are preserving those traditions.

 

[Figless]

@"RandyK"#37 @"TorontoJoe"#1 Hello my gentle figfanatic friends. It's been a pleasure today discussing mischievous spider mites, and other stubborn grow room guests. Toronto Joe, and I became friends staying up late at night, once upon a time. Waging our private war against an invading army of basements dwelling thrips. We lost of course, but it was a great way to start a friendship. Joe I believe [font='Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]spinosad will work quite well indoors, but only has a safe to use control agent. It's not going to eradicate indoor pests. Did[/font] you ever employ forbiddenfruit.garden suggested use of the thrip Predator mite? I thought it was worth a try especially in a higher humidity climate zone. Using a thrips loving Predator mite in your basement, and especially in your garden might make a world of difference. Randy I also really enjoyed discussing Pest Control with you earlier today.

 

[TorontoJoe]

@"RandyK"#37 @"TorontoJoe"#1 Hello my gentle figfanatic friends. It's been a pleasure today discussing mischievous spider mites, and other stubborn grow room guests. Toronto Joe, and I became friends staying up late at night, once upon a time. Waging our private war against an invading army of basements dwelling thrips. We lost of course, but it was a great way to start a friendship. Joe I believe [font='Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]spinosad will work quite well indoors, but only has a safe to use control agent. It's not going to eradicate indoor pests. Did[/font] you ever employ forbiddenfruit.garden suggested use of the thrip Predator mite? I thought it was worth a try especially in a higher humidity climate zone. Using a thrips loving Predator mite in your basement, and especially in your garden might make a world of difference. Randy I also really enjoyed discussing Pest Control with you earlier today.

Thank you, sir… You are quite correct in that eradicating an infestation is near impossible. After the last volley I shut the whole system down and let it sit dry with fans on it for a few weeks. Since rebooting everything, I’ve just been very careful not to risk bringing anything back in the room… So I have not needed to introduce any predators… Which I need to say, the idea of which my wife was not a big fan of. I’m just being really careful… And so far so good

 

[RandyK]

Hey Randy... OK, I've been doing this so long and learned from so many mistakes I could write a short novel
Please excuse any poor grammar or if I'm disconnected but I want to get you the info here.
As far as plants, greens are by far the easiest and fasted and most reliable.... but it doesn't nee to be the same all the time. Some preferred greens are mustard, arugula and choy... but lettuce is king. If you can get one called "barilla" its the best butterhead I've ever had. Red leaf and tango lettuce are amazing. Tango is more of a head and red leaf is cut and come again. My absolute top producer. A delicious leaf for cut and come again called Grand Rapids. It grows in a month or so and makes tasty, big leaves.
Note I also do green onions in the basement all winter in sterile mix so we can have easy salads with greens an onions a few nights a week that are totally fresh.

I use a stock NFT hydroponic kit from amazon. They sell these 3 teir kits with like 100+ holes but you can't use them all because they're too close together... 
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B091SNYYVR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I sucession plant and have maybe 30 on the go at any given time. The seeds are dirt cheap so having too much is better. Always lots for sandwiches and snacks.
 I think like twice a year. I pull mine apart and flush it with a big bottle brush
 
The reservoir will need to be low and flat enough to fit underneath but still have enough volume. There are some purpose built options. Definitely have a cover to minimize evaporation and keep light out. I use a squeegee bucket
 
Keep the tank off the bare floor. It may get too cold. Some rigid foam insulation works well.
 
One major issue with these kits is while they have 100+ grow holes, they're spaced way too close to use them all. I wish they were available at 3 times the spacing. I might keep little seedlings close but they have to get moves as they grow.
 
You want to keep as much off the water to prevent algae (you'll get some) Any unused grow holes should be covered. I got a bunch of these
 
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/16611887376...EsxfXos0Mnr7qKfkMlFScqjsaw==|tkp:BFBM1KbYxb9k
 
Be mindful of the distance between levels. Remember you need to get lights in there.
 
These are the lights I mounted to 1/2" rigid foam insulation. Secured with zip ties. Also, you will need to build another tier over the top level for lights. I bought some broom handles from the dollar store
 
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0BQ74H9NR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Cover everything you can in a reflective material. The more light you can keep in the better. I got this stuff and spray glued to boards
 
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00DZ1NFSK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Lights I keep on a basic lamp timer to come on at night when power is cheaper. 12 hours on, 12 hours off
 
You will always need to keep air moving and will need one fan on each levelI use one of these on each deck on a timer. 15min on, 15min off all the time
 
The grow media they sell is a ripoff. If you buy those cubes of rock will it costs a fortune, I get these big slabs and make tiny squares.
 
I get these
 
https://www.incredigrow.ca/products...cmbvJoS6O3iRi4JK-LMXRT2xmkWeq3ucfd5nRTr_42G0s

Some pics of my setup.... It sits over my sump pit and takes a floor footprint of maybe 5 feet by 2.5 feet tops. You really don't want any sort of infestation and I had none for 3 years until I started going back and forth from the garden without changing. I learned my lesson to keep the bugs out....


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I'm sure I'm missing something but we should discuss over in the gardening side.

Some more notes... This took a few days after work to set up but once running it's minutes a day.

Pruning roots from time to time is critical to preventing blockage and flooding.

I built this after the first time I say a $5 head of lettuce. I've tracked the cost vs production... it's paid for itself multiple times over... and the food is better.

Hope I was coherent... Happy to take questions about it

Joe, Wow!  Just wow!  Thanks for the very thorough description and all the information in here.  It took me a while to read through, then look at the pictures and then read through it again.  Very impressive!  I think you are right, this would be a great thread on its own in the gardening section!

When you use the rock wool and cut it into cubes, is that what you put the seeds into that then the cube goes into the hole in the PVC tube?

Also, I hadn't thought about root pruning.  Do you pull the whole plant that is growing in it's cube out of the PVC and just give the roots a trim and then back into its spot?

This is great stuff.  Thanks!

 

[NYCfigs]

@"TorontoJoe"#1 That is an impressive set-up!

My 2 cents with spider-mites:

From what I've discovered, spider-mites are difficult or near impossible to eradicate on an indoor grow of fig cuttings at scale but easy to take care of on a few plants.  I will talk about growing more than a few cuttings, indoors, under lights.

I've done this many, many times.  Too much or too little water are both killers.  Too much water attracts fungus gnats and too little attracts spider mites.  In my opinion, too much water is worse because it also invites a whole host of other problems; I err on the dry side.  I've used Neem and small clip-on fans to deal with either, though, and have been quite successful controlling spider mites.  Spray a concentration of Neem a few times per week and be sure to get under the leaves and on top of the soil.

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This is an old picture of one shelf.  Each shelf would have it's own fan.