St Martin

[grasshopper]

That's interesting and something I'd like to follow. It may very well challenge some old beliefs.

We often think of ripening in terms of when we pick the fruits, not necessarily how long it has been between pea size and fruit ripen.

e.g. If the tree has been severely pruned as in the first or second year(or winter dieback), it would take time to regrow the new branch which forms the new figlets. The time between the pea size and fruit ripen may be similar, but the time to be able to pick them may have delayed at first on a younger tree.

Also, it is really hard to define fruit ripen. e.g. I just picked 3 Malta Black yesterday. They were all soft and wrinkled. Only 1 was ripe and it was very good. The other 2 was picked too early. I can't say I can consistently pick a variety at its optimal without some trial and error. I forgot what the defacto definition of a ripe fig is. I picked most of mine overripe if waiting for it to go totally soft is ripe.

 

[oat]

I've seen research where they demonstrated that caprification expedites ripening time. The pollen source also affects the speed of fig ripening. - https://www.notulaebotanicae.ro/plugins/generic/pdfJsViewer/pdf.js/web/viewer.html?file=https://www.notulaebotanicae.ro/index.php/nbha/article/download/12831/9441/56470

That’s interesting. I have no control over the source of my pollens. For me, I think the biggest factor is when a given tree wake up and start growing strongly.

 

[grasshopper]

I would love to see a detailed study on ripening times as a tree matures. Are we talking days faster? Weeks? Does it apply to figs grown in pots? Does pot size play a role? I assume so as, in my experience, figs in general grow much better for me in larger pots and look healthier. Anyway, lots to explore in this area.

I don't think I have seen any scientific study on ripening times relative to tree maturity. It is mostly a hearsay. I don't know if someone converts those records into GDDs which make it easier to compare across geography and time.

I have been wondering about pot size as well. I planted most of mine in 5 gal because it is easier and cheaper to find the buckets in that size. The bigger pots take up more space and soil. But as the tree ages, putting them in a 5 gal bucket is a pain for both me and the tree, especially in a warm climate. They go root bound pretty quickly. Some people are going for 7/8 gal pots, mostly because that is the weight they can lift comfortably. Going upward, many of us need a dolly to move the pots. Even that has limitations depending on your garden specifics/layouts.

 

[figologist]

We can't keep them all unfortunately.

Yes. We. Can. YESWECANYESWEAC_E)@(+@!(+_@!+_!($_+!@$

=)

 

[Tinyfish]

This has opened up a great conversation.

When I say ripening faster I only expect a swing of 5-7 days maximum 10 from my experience. I have been tracking days to ripen from 2016. My days to ripen are generally a few days longer because I let my figs fully ripen on the tree. There will always be a discrepancy in data because of the starting point size of the fig. I gather my data on a certain day and I use a fig size of bump, pebble or pea size on that given day and track from there.

Some good points were mentioned that play a big role like GDD. At my location and probably other short season growers the beginning of the season really effects GDD. I could go days and even weeks with only a few hours each day with proper GDD temperatures and then too cold for the rest of the day. @Figgin' A you seem to have an excellent headstart system so it seens like you don't have an issue with early season GDD setback so your ripening data is consistent.

As I've probably mentioned here I am really working on my headstart set up for my poly greenhouse. I am currently adding a sub panel in my shed with 30 amps of power to run upto three 1500w heaters or 240v heater haven't decided type of heater yet. I have two exhaust fans already one for temperature and one for humidity. With these improvements I hope to start earlier and avoid the early season GDD setbacks by keeping them in the greenhouse with consistent 24 hour GDD and removing the greenhouse once the outside temperatures become stable.

 

[grasshopper]

The advantage of keeping the trees in the garage (South facing) is the heat during the day seems to hold reasonably well throughout the cold night, perhaps due to lack of air circulation or the concrete surface or from the house heat leaking into the garage. Not sure which but keeping the temperature high at night was probably one of the main reason why I could harvest BM before mid July.

Would barrels of water in the grow tent be helpful to keep the night temperature warm at night in addition to the heaters?

Garage temperature hit 80s during some of the days, 70s mostly. I wonder how warm the grow tent would be under the sun?

If we allow day time temp to hit a higher mark, would that help to compensate for the lower temp night? Afterall, it takes time to raise and lower temperature of a well hydrated pot with soil and plant.

GDD, for practical purpose, uses the middle between high and low over the base temp.

 

[Tinyfish]

The advantage of keeping the trees in the garage (South facing) is the heat during the day seems to hold reasonably well throughout the cold night, perhaps due to lack of air circulation or the concrete surface or from the house heat leaking into the garage. Not sure which but keeping the temperature high at night was probably one of the main reason why I could harvest BM before mid July.

Would barrels of water in the grow tent be helpful to keep the night temperature warm at night in addition to the heaters?

Garage temperature hit 80s during some of the days, 70s mostly. I wonder how warm the grow tent would be under the sun?

If we allow day time temp to hit a higher mark, would that help to compensate for the lower temp night? Afterall, it takes time to raise and lower temperature of a well hydrated pot with soil and plant.

GDD, for practical purpose, uses the middle between high and low over the base temp.

If space allows barrels of water would help. It definitely gets to hot in the greenhouse during the day and the one exhaust fan is set to turn on at a preset temperature to regulate the temperature. The second exhaust fan is to regulate the humidity.

 

[bushdoctor82]

The advantage of keeping the trees in the garage (South facing) is the heat during the day seems to hold reasonably well throughout the cold night, perhaps due to lack of air circulation or the concrete surface or from the house heat leaking into the garage. Not sure which but keeping the temperature high at night was probably one of the main reason why I could harvest BM before mid July.

Would barrels of water in the grow tent be helpful to keep the night temperature warm at night in addition to the heaters?

Garage temperature hit 80s during some of the days, 70s mostly. I wonder how warm the grow tent would be under the sun?

If we allow day time temp to hit a higher mark, would that help to compensate for the lower temp night? Afterall, it takes time to raise and lower temperature of a well hydrated pot with soil and plant.

GDD, for practical purpose, uses the middle between high and low over the base temp.

GDD is useful because it’s convenient, easy and can give the grower a range on when they can expect to harvest figs at their location. Headstarting or other measures to increase early season temperature would make online GDD values null and void.

Anecdotally, my Family Etna I’m growing (4 year old tree) starts to ripen for me early to mid-August, it ripens for my Mother (+/- 40 year old tree) early to mid-August and ripened for my PopPop early to mid-August. Spring temperatures can influence whether harvest is August 5th or August 15th, but not much more than that.

Joe from CT/RI on the other forum argued that the “correct” or “best” measure is to calculate days/nights above x degrees. I can’t remember what temperature threshold he used. I believe his reasoning was there is little benefit to growth and fruit set if temperatures decrease overnight past the threshold used regardless of the daytime temperatures. There is definitely merit in that.

 

[Tinyfish]

GDD is useful because it’s convenient, easy and can give the grower a range on when they can expect to harvest figs at their location. Headstarting or other measures to increase early season temperature would make online GDD values null and void.

Anecdotally, my Family Etna I’m growing (4 year old tree) starts to ripen for me early to mid-August, it ripens for my Mother (+/- 40 year old tree) early to mid-August and ripened for my PopPop early to mid-August. Spring temperatures can influence whether harvest is August 5th or August 15th, but not much more than that.

Joe from CT/RI on the other forum argued that the “correct” or “best” measure is to calculate days/nights above x degrees. I can’t remember what temperature threshold he used. I believe his reasoning was there is little benefit to growth and fruit set if temperatures decrease overnight past the threshold used regardless of the daytime temperatures. There is definitely merit in that.

I believe 55f is the threshold. Its this 55f threshold that really gets affected in the early season.

 

[grasshopper]

GDD is useful because it’s convenient, easy and can give the grower a range on when they can expect to harvest figs at their location. Headstarting or other measures to increase early season temperature would make online GDD values null and void.

Anecdotally, my Family Etna I’m growing (4 year old tree) starts to ripen for me early to mid-August, it ripens for my Mother (+/- 40 year old tree) early to mid-August and ripened for my PopPop early to mid-August. Spring temperatures can influence whether harvest is August 5th or August 15th, but not much more than that.

Joe from CT/RI on the other forum argued that the “correct” or “best” measure is to calculate days/nights above x degrees. I can’t remember what temperature threshold he used. I believe his reasoning was there is little benefit to growth and fruit set if temperatures decrease overnight past the threshold used regardless of the daytime temperatures. There is definitely merit in that.

Joe said above 60 and from my limited experience 65. Traditional GDD uses 50. I think that number is based on corn.

I did think about GDD would be messed up if headstart is included in the data. I guess we still need to rely on the old fashion ways to develop a ripening range for a variety.

The other thing I noticed was tree tend to ripen first fig quicker and then it can be a while before the next one. So people like deanp starts tracking the time for the first 10 figs ripen instead of just the first one.

 

[grasshopper]

If space allows barrels of water would help. It definitely gets to hot in the greenhouse during the day and the one exhaust fan is set to turn on at a preset temperature to regulate the temperature. The second exhaust fan is to regulate the humidity.

One thing I should add is I used mostly SIPs, so the pot itself always have about a gallon of water to help regulate temperature.

Perhaps you can set the trigger temp for the vent to be a bit higher to pull up the average without causing damage to the plants.

 

[387PETE]

Are these the size of a Celeste? It’s tough to gauge from pictures.

They are bigger than Celeste, I would say a medium size fig. Here's a picture from today. Mine is 4 years old, 3rd year inground

 

[oat]

Here what it looks like caprified. It’s a super juicy fig. It had so much nectar that this is after it had been leaking juice for a while before I cut this opened. It has a really interesting berry flavor that’s not your typical berry. I will pick it a little earlier to see if it’s less juicy(I don’t like super soft juicy fig).

 

[TorontoJoe]

Here what it looks like caprified. It’s a super juicy fig. It had so much nectar that this is after it had been leaking juice for a while before I cut this opened. It has a really interesting berry flavor that’s not your typical berry. I will pick it a little earlier to see if it’s less juicy(I don’t like super soft juicy fig).

That is so hot!

 

[oat]

That is so hot!

The wasps didn’t seem to like this one though. This was the only caprified fig from St. Martin this year. Also this variety dropped quite a bit of the figs it set the past three years. My tree is happier now, so hopefully next year it does better.
I can vouch for its cold hardiness. It lignified its woods really quickly even when growing strongly.

 

[grasshopper]

This one has reportedly survived really cold temperature (-15c?), which I read long ago. But that was a very old tree and probably have some microclimate helping it.

Some growers reported that it is not as hardy but they likely have young trees.

I agree it has an interesting taste and it did drop 2-3 figs this year. My mix tends to be on the dry side couple with the weather so I didn't detect abundant juiciness. Wasps don't like wet figs or they don't do well once gotten inside as they can't move easily to finish their job. Just remind me of the story of Croisic, the first persistent caprifig found/identified. It too tends to be wet.

 

[oat]

This one has reportedly survived really cold temperature (-15c?), which I read long ago. But that was a very old tree and probably have some microclimate helping it.

Some growers reported that it is not as hardy but they likely have young trees.

I agree it has an interesting taste and it did drop 2-3 figs this year. My mix tends to be on the dry side couple with the weather so I didn't detect abundant juiciness. Wasps don't like wet figs or they don't do well once gotten inside as they can't move easily to finish their job. Just remind me of the story of Croisic, the first persistent caprifig found/identified. It too tends to be wet.

I can’t comment on the temperature, since I don’t ever get that cold. When I first planted it I stupidly planted it too early in the spring and it saw two late cold snaps. That was the super unusually cold California winter. I also planted some rooted trees in the fall and lost a bunch of them that winter. I was a newbie at growing fig in the ground in places where it can actually freezes lol. In SF I just plant, graft them whenever

St. Martin was the only one with zero damage from that batch of trees.